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Another fantasy jacket from Buzz Rickson this time NASA
- Thread starter oose
- Start date
The second one (B15 Mod) is a great example, based on the actual original models.
The first one is a very well constructed jacket, which seems to have unnecessary extras? Do Buzz actually own an original of this or the NASA Jacket? I'm not sure, unfortunately I doubt it. Both look very good, but are too far off what they should be in my eyes
Surely it would have cost less to produce a more historically accurate version of both the 'Scorpion and NASA considering the extra expense of putting on unnecessary epaulets, tabs, pockets, etc? Or maybe their parent company have been worried about Chinese and Korean imports and thought they could just produce these to current patterns and make a quick buck. Buzz have been accused of trying to reproduce examples that seem to have had field mods with the impression they were sent out the factory like that in the past.
I can't help notice that Eastman (Buzz Rickson's European importers) have steered clear of these so far? Considering Eastman's history of showing their jacket next to the one they reproduced it from, I do have to wonder if they felt there was not enough proof on this and maybe other cases. But that just my opinion.
To nick a phrase from 'The Right stuff' , Buzz Rickson seems to have "Augered in" on both of these.
The first one is a very well constructed jacket, which seems to have unnecessary extras? Do Buzz actually own an original of this or the NASA Jacket? I'm not sure, unfortunately I doubt it. Both look very good, but are too far off what they should be in my eyes
Surely it would have cost less to produce a more historically accurate version of both the 'Scorpion and NASA considering the extra expense of putting on unnecessary epaulets, tabs, pockets, etc? Or maybe their parent company have been worried about Chinese and Korean imports and thought they could just produce these to current patterns and make a quick buck. Buzz have been accused of trying to reproduce examples that seem to have had field mods with the impression they were sent out the factory like that in the past.
I can't help notice that Eastman (Buzz Rickson's European importers) have steered clear of these so far? Considering Eastman's history of showing their jacket next to the one they reproduced it from, I do have to wonder if they felt there was not enough proof on this and maybe other cases. But that just my opinion.
To nick a phrase from 'The Right stuff' , Buzz Rickson seems to have "Augered in" on both of these.
MeachamLake
Well-Known Member
Sure, it might be for some people, but in my case the man has really managed to rub me up the wrong way in the space of a few days over this whole debacle. I had gone from courteous discussion with him over the potential purchase of an MA-1, to being called a 'naysayer' and a 'negative person' in the space of a few days - all because I asked, with sincerity, what jacket his Nasa Buzz one was based on because it looked different to the ones I'd already seen. He's certainly lost my business.
He's left another response to my question this morning that's worthy of even the most skilled career politician. Utter rambling nonsense that doesn't even answer my original question - if the man opens as description with "this is a copy of a jacket worn by a test pilot", then he should be able to back it up with some evidence. Instead he starts pointing the finger at other people and blaming them. Just bizarre behaviour.
Your jackets look absolutely spot on though, Monsoon. Really, really nice. That red one looks great!
I thought this too initially, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced the man is just making stuff up out of thin air to pad out his descriptions. After all, what's to stop him? He's the sole North American distributor, and he can claim to have heard whatever he likes from Toyo directly. It's not like anyone can just ring up and check. He still appears to be the only man in human history who has seen and handled a genuine red knit B-10, after all. The fact he turns oddly sheepish and very defensive whenever anyone has the audacity to ask about the provenance of a jacket makes me increasingly convinced this is the case.
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
SNIP He's left another response to my question this morning that's worthy of even the most skilled career politician. Utter rambling nonsense that doesn't even answer my original question SNIP I'm becoming increasingly convinced the man is just making stuff up out of thin air to pad out his descriptions. SNIP.[/QUOTE said:
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colekwok
Active Member
I must admit that it has become very entertaining in looking at his replies in the other forum. He even had to pulled out the 'friend of a friend' card.....
Why not just say all the infos are provided by Toyo/BR and threw the ball back to their park? Easy.
Rutger
Well-Known Member
On a positive note : at least the red MA-1 is no longer claimed to be an exact copy.
Well done y'all, even if you seem to have gained an enemy in the process. Oh well, it's just the internet ......
In another thirty years the red MA-1 will still be celebrated as the legendary Northrop test pilot MA-1 that "correctly captures all the nuances found on MA-1 Flight Jackets once produced in extremely limited numbers for Northop Aviation".
The same questions will be asked, the same discussions will arise. A great time was had by all.
Well done y'all, even if you seem to have gained an enemy in the process. Oh well, it's just the internet ......
In another thirty years the red MA-1 will still be celebrated as the legendary Northrop test pilot MA-1 that "correctly captures all the nuances found on MA-1 Flight Jackets once produced in extremely limited numbers for Northop Aviation".
The same questions will be asked, the same discussions will arise. A great time was had by all.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I just read Charles's comment over there now. Funny how he now says he never did claim the red MA-1 was the same jacket when the blurb at the HPA site and what he's posted over there says otherwise.
I'm tempted to reply about some of the errors he's made about replacement knits (through work I've handled quite a few fast jet nylon jackets) but you know what, I actually can't be bothered. It's like my old man said that there's no point arguing with women and nutters. I genuinely think that he believes he's the only fellow who knows anything about jackets hence his robust denials about anything which is contrary to what he's stated and then a big flip-flop when he gets proven wrong.
It's funny for someone who claims to come from a history background how he's happy to accept unsubstantiated hypothesis. I would've been kicked out of work for using that approach to any artefact research conclusions.
Still TFL is probably a good place for him, most of the people hanging around the outerwear section now don't seem to be into flying kit so he's got a far less critical and knowledgeable crowd to make pronouncements to.
I'm tempted to reply about some of the errors he's made about replacement knits (through work I've handled quite a few fast jet nylon jackets) but you know what, I actually can't be bothered. It's like my old man said that there's no point arguing with women and nutters. I genuinely think that he believes he's the only fellow who knows anything about jackets hence his robust denials about anything which is contrary to what he's stated and then a big flip-flop when he gets proven wrong.
It's funny for someone who claims to come from a history background how he's happy to accept unsubstantiated hypothesis. I would've been kicked out of work for using that approach to any artefact research conclusions.
Still TFL is probably a good place for him, most of the people hanging around the outerwear section now don't seem to be into flying kit so he's got a far less critical and knowledgeable crowd to make pronouncements to.
MeachamLake
Well-Known Member
It certainly is curious, isn't it. If he'd stated that it was an original Buzz designed MA-1 based on those worn by Northrop test pilots, then there would be no issue. I don't think people would have a problem with that - see the William Gibson jackets, for instance, which are pure fantasy but have a special appeal because of that very fact.
He seems to have a problem when choosing words in general. Take this from the blurb about that red jacket, which apparently has a "copy of a commercial-style label in the neck area." This inherently makes no sense. It's impossible to have an authentic copy of something which is completely made up to begin with. It's pure blabber.
ButteMT61
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but then you can't charge $500 for the privilege...it becomes a $250 jacket right there.
Its a copy of the style of commercial label used when MA-1 jackets were made. Check out the picture on the HPA website. At least I think there's a picture. If not ill post one of mine.
Yeah, BR would save themselves some grief if they'd said, "based on" or "inspired by".
But no matter; case closed. Charles/HPA are just pulling crap out of their ass and no one here will be doing any business with him again. Now back to the base for debriefing and cocktails, VLJ has chalk up another victory.
LOL! Thanks, bro! It's a nice departure from grey and green.
Teddy
Well-Known Member
Man, that feeling when you find a thread you enjoy but only to realize that all the larger sizes of test Aero B-10s are all sold out...such a pity!
@Ken at Aero Leather Just want to shout out that I like your preference for all things non-synthetic! Personally the furthest I could go with synthetic fabric is ELC B-15 with 50% cotton 50% rayon. I'd probably be happier if it's 100% cotton but the cut is great and the quality is top. Glad to see Aero picking up B-10s again and hopefully I'll be more up-to-date with future offerings!
@Ken at Aero Leather Just want to shout out that I like your preference for all things non-synthetic! Personally the furthest I could go with synthetic fabric is ELC B-15 with 50% cotton 50% rayon. I'd probably be happier if it's 100% cotton but the cut is great and the quality is top. Glad to see Aero picking up B-10s again and hopefully I'll be more up-to-date with future offerings!
