Active duty aircrew and wearing repros

[Anonymous]

Well thanks toy you Gunny and eveyone else who had input.

This is what this forum does so well, a free exchange of information.

Dave

 

[BONNIEGIRL4]

The real question is; would anyone be knowledgeable enough to even notice a high end repro from issue, doubt it, great topic, I have wondered this myself - TOM

 

[better duck]

The real question is; would anyone be knowledgeable enough to even notice a high end repro from issue, doubt it, great topic, I have wondered this myself - TOM

They would if you chose HH instead of GS, wouldn't they?

 

[R7000]

I sold a Cooper real/goat G-1 to a Marine pilot this week. He was VERY unhappy with his issued Excelled jacket and said many of his peers have bought their own G-1s.

Tom

 

[usafwso]

I would doubt that the USAF would go for that! Most who are authorized to wear the A-2 are going to be quite happy with the issued A-2 and probably not going to spend a a couple of hundred dollars for a jacket.

The first A-2 that I was issues to me in 1988 is quite a bit different from the A-2's being issues now. The newer ones look like pleather. Also, in the early days, only pilots, navigators and other rated fliers got the jackets. Now everyone who flies gets one.

 

[Tim P]

I doubt that a crewman wearing a Star from ELC would merit a second glance from a colleague. a monarch or a cable may raise an eyebrow! I believe that any crewman with a mind to do so could replace their a2 with a ww2 repro as clothing sales often offer budget and high end boots, uniforms and so on. Having one issue however is cool enough and would suffice for 99.9 recurring.

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

usafwso,

I tried to see your point in your thread but alas I could not. The USAF A-2 was brought back as I recall, as more motivational, then a piece of flight gear to keep pilots warm. And, yes they were issued to only Pilots and WSO's and other "officers" in WWII, but the 1988 issue was to the following:

... in 1988 the modern Air Force A-2 is authorized for wear by aircrew members and by space operations personnel. Only personnel who have completed their mission qualifications, as opposed to basic aviation qualifications, are permitted to wear it. This requirement makes the jacket highly prized even among Air Force aviators. The latest design differs from the original design in several ways: it is looser-fitting, made only from goatskin, and produced in only a medium seal brown color (though many older, fitted jackets are still in use).

And I don't believe "everyone" who flies gets a jacket. The rules are pretty specific. But, like I said in the early part of the post, sometimes we don't follow the rules. So if the USAF is not enforcing their own rules, then yes I guess "everyone" who flies could wear the current issue A-2.

So I guess we were lucky in the Navy/Marine Corps that we never stopped issuing our leather G-1's, and the reg's for issue and wear are pretty clear.

r/Gy Dan

 

[Atticus]

So I guess we were lucky in the Navy/Marine Corps that we never stopped issuing our leather G-1's, and the reg's for issue and wear are pretty clear.
r/Gy Dan

Dan, I'm not nit-picking...and this is just a side note to the thread...but in 1978 the Navy actually tried to stop issuing the G-1. John Lehman caused it to be re-introduced in 1982. Had it not been for his love of leather flight jackets, the good ol' G-1 would have disappeared with the depletion of pre-1978 inventories.

AF

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

AF,

I remeber that in the G-1 history, but the supply points in the fleet USN/USMC, and Pensacola/Washington St, for Aviators never ceased issuing the G-1? I looked on the USMC Website and the G-1 has been in the supply system through the 70's and 80's?

You bring up a good point and I will do some research on the Navy archives, to see if a "stop" issue occurred, then a re-issue like the USAF.

I will post what I find....

r/Dan

 

[Atticus]

I was living in Jacksonville at the time...teaching business law and accounting at the local community college. I really, really, really wanted an issued G-1. I remember hitting up several of my helicopter jock students (they enrolled every quarter to meet women), trying to get them to score a jacket for me. Hell, I might as well have asked them for a CH-46. Later, when I became a collector, I found out why...they couldn't even get G-1s for themselves. Even now, try to find a DLA 1979, 1980 or 1981 G-1. I think the first of the "post-ban" G-1s was the 1982 Ralph Edwards.

I finally ended up getting a repro at the mainside PX.

AF

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

AF,

Very interesting input. I will look at the data and see what I can dig up from the DLA files as well.

r/DRH

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

AF,

Here is what I found:

The current specification G-1 jacket (MIL-J-7823E(AS) 1971), has been on contract from these vendors from 1969 - current:

PHARR BRAND NAME APPAREL (2004-current supplier),
EXCELLED SHEEPSKIN & LEATHER COAT CO., 1999-2004,
SCHOTT BROS., INC., 1998,
COOPER SPORTSWEAR MFG. CO., INC, 1989-1996,
BRILL BROS., INC., 1968-1987,
ORCHARD M/C DIST. INC., 1986,
FERGUSON OF OKLAHOMA, 1976,
IMPERIAL LEATHER & SPORTSWEAR INC., 1976,
IMPERIAL FASHIONS, INC., 1974,

Notice the Brill Bros contract was continuous from 1968 - 1987.....

So I will continue to search to see if there was a "stop" issue.....

r/Gy Dan

 

[deeb7]

The current specification G-1 jacket (MIL-J-7823E(AS) 1971), has been on contract from these vendors from 1969 - current:

This list may not be official, it appears to be part of Tom's on Wikipedia, compiled from observations ... see this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6533

 

[FtrPlt]

For those interested, here's a link to AFI 36-2903:
http://www.afoats.af.mil/OTS/documents/AFI36-2903.pdf

Flight dress info starts on page 95.

Found a lot has changed since I served in the early 1980s. Noted that section 3.2.1.6 specific mentions that, "morale patches are not authorized for wear". A very far cry from my time in TAC.

Also noted the USAF is now competing with the Army for who can offer the widest range of beret colors (table 3.6 -- pg 97). :?
USAF offers: blue, maroon, pewter green, pewter grey, scarlet, and black

I didn't receive an A-2 while on active duty (they weren't reissued yet) but did get one in the Guard. By the late 90's, the original issue Saddlery jackets were already being sought after -- I wasn't paying much attention at the time but believe the color might have already been trending much darker than the original brown.

For wear, I believe any of the post-1988 jackets are still authorized for wear. With velcro added, I suspect any decent A-2 repro in a similar color could probably sneak by.

 

[Atticus]

This list may not be official, it appears to be part of Tom's on Wikipedia, compiled from observations ... see this thread:

http://vintageleatherjackets.org/viewto ... f=5&t=6533

I agree. I think that Brill made G-1s before and after the ban, but I still think that there were no G-1s made during the ban. I base my opinon on my own memories and on what Dave Parsons has written...both in his book and here on the forum.

But my opinion is far from set in stone. Were I to see a photo of a DLA 1979, 1980 or 1981 G-1, my opinion would change in a heartbeat. And you know how we liberals are...we love to change.

AF

 

[USMC_GAU-21]

Well, I didn't say it was "official" and yes some of what I found was off the wiki, I will look into the archives but I have to go up to DC to do that. And, I will. Not trying to pass bum scoop, but I can't any documentation of a "ban" at all.

AF, yes a picture of a DLA tag with those dates would solve this I agree........

I realize there are a lot of folks here with more knowledge than I, but I will do some research myself and see what I can find, and not just buy a Full Gear book.

r/Dan

 

[watchmanjimg]

This list may not be official, it appears to be part of Tom's on Wikipedia, compiled from observations ... see this thread:

http://vintageleatherjackets.org/viewto ... f=5&t=6533

I agree. I think that Brill made G-1s before and after the ban, but I still think that there were no G-1s made during the ban. I base my opinon on my own memories and on what Dave Parsons has written...both in his book and here on the forum.

But my opinion is far from set in stone. Were I to see a photo of a DLA 1979, 1980 or 1981 G-1, my opinion would change in a heartbeat. And you know how we liberals are...we love to change.

AF

Geoff, if I remember correctly you brought up this issue 2 1/2 years ago when I picked up the jacket whose label appears below:

Evidently this one doesn't fly in the face of conventional wisdom given the '82 date, but I seem to recall that it generated comments way back when.

 

[Atticus]

Geoff, if I remember correctly you brought up this issue 2 1/2 years ago when I picked up the jacket whose label appears below:

Evidently this one doesn't fly in the face of conventional wisdom given the '82 date, but I seem to recall that it generated comments way back when.

I do remember. Actually, according to Dave, John Lehman ordered the re-introduction in 1982 and jackets like yours hit the supply stream in late 1982 or early 1983.

I was hoping that Dave was still lurking about here, but I guess not. I think some now-gone VLJ "experts" denigrated his book enough that he finally left.

AF

 

[deeb7]

I agree. I think that Brill made G-1s before and after the ban, but I still think that there were no G-1s made during the ban. I base my opinon on my own memories and on what Dave Parsons has written...both in his book and here on the forum.

I found this ...

The Navy remained loyal to the G-1 and its existence was only threatened by its popularity outside aviation and as a trading commodity. This situation resulted in far more G-1 jackets being issued than were authorized for wear. An audit of the supply system revealed this fact in 1978 and resulted in the outright cancellation of the leather flight jacket. It was not until 1983 when the popular Secretary of the Navy John Lehman responded to the naval aviation community's continued cry for the return of the aviation brown shoes and leather flight jacket that the G-1 was restored in the supply (and with a very strict set of rules for requisition to prevent a repeat of the abuse).

Meanwhile, in an effort to keep the costs of the G-1 jacket down, the Navy relaxed the specification to allow substitution of other leather material with a proviso that it had to have the appearance of the pebble-grained goatskin. The relaxed spec also allowed the mouton collar to be constructed of a synthetic material known as Dynel. The aviation community did not generally know these facts, and to their dismay, some aviators found this out when they swapped their older jackets for newer ones.

The charmed life of leather flight jackets,
Flight Journal, Oct 2001 by Parsons, Dave

 

[Atticus]

And this....begin reading at the very bottom of page 100.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qOFQ26 ... et&f=false

AF