A2JACKETPATCHES KICKED OFF OUR SITE

[ButteMT61]

It seems ironic @ausreenactor that you have been on the supporting end of the guys who have been dismissed here. I guess everyone else is just wrong, and the few will die on the hill to prove that the rest are just whiners or whatever.
Mod's have a hard job, and unless you've moderated a forum, you don't know what a PITA it really is. There's not a lot of return on your time sans making a place that's safe for all to enjoy. You certainly (generally speaking) get rich off of it, and often spend lots of your own time and money.
I trust that the mod's have had good cause to do what they do, and the numbers of members dismissed is small here. So it seems simple - follow the rules and you'll be fine. Nobody gets dumped without fair cause and fair warning.

Edit: Also, there are many vendors here that manage to post and keep business separate from personal posts/commentary. Seems to be no issues with vendors that do their thing and don't ruffle feathers. Running a business means that one must at times "bite their tongue" in order to maintain a good relationship with customers and potential customers. There are myriad examples of fellas here that do just that very successfully. If one chooses to "vend" and post as an individual with opinions and zeal, then one must expect that the light will be shown upon them and the results may not be in their favor...

 

[ausreenactor]

I am not alone in the support of Sean and Platon. There is a visible history of that. Albeit I am one of a few who post to this effect. Why would it be ironic that I support former members who produced quality items for me, with great customer service and follow up? I just saw the level of concurrent heat thrown at them here and on the FL for whatever reason from the usual crew. I only ran off my opinion, my perceptions and my personal experiences with both Platon and Sean. Others hold different opinions and that's fine. Are we still able to hold differing opinions on this iteration of the VLJ or is it something that will get me binned?

 

[Rutger]

Are we still able to hold differing opinions on this iteration of the VLJ or is it something that will get me binned?

The safest forum is a forum with people all from the same mould.

I always said he'd come to no good in the end your honor.
If they'd let me have my way I could have flayed him into shape.

 

[2BM2K]

I missed the posts that led to the banning and so am not at all clear about what happened.

As far as the self-promation goes that could have been delt with some time ago by the moderators deleting or moving posts. If that was the underlying
cause then the ban could have been avoided.

 

[ButteMT61]

As I've said, being a vendor is not like being a regular Joe here.
I got good items from a2 but I also saw non stop bickering. Two people really, but not.
But it's the forum and not a personal online store.
You gotta play by the rules.

 

[Vcruiser]

A little VLJ history: In the beginning and throughout several years and incarnations of this forum, Chris (administrator), moderators and members took pride in the effort of members to be able to 'self moderate'. Otherwise, the group was allowed to stick together if a member appeared to unreasonably disrupt the forum, immediately berate or run off new members or consistently argue, play the victim and continually insult. The first member banned was by a lengthy process of public discussion, pleas to consider the welfare of the forum, then finally decided by a poll with majority votes counted and final.
Then politics entered the 'Beyond the Internet' during a quite volatile season in America. Sadly that never-ending battle pit member against member until it became obvious that administration must step in and take control of the situation. Unfortunately, several members were banned because they couldn't seem to let it die or realize how personal that discussion had ultimately affected others during the heat of divisiveness. So disruptive that management 'banned' further discussion of the subject. This was not unique to just this forum, as other forums did the same for similar reasons.
The next 'out of control' dilemma stemmed from a new member joining and presenting himself as something he was not. When it was found out that he was really a rep or joint founder of a new repro jacket company (which he originally denied...then finally admitted), his ads were injected into any thread that he felt allowed an opening to promote their product. After members complained behind the scenes and in public that this forum was becoming over-run with company promotions and ads, a special section was then setup for 'reproduction makers' in order to contain any company reps announcements. Not to dissuade their participation, but to only keep within bounds the urge to promote their particular product within threads on the main forum. It was also frowned upon to belittle other repro makers simply to exalt you own production.
More 'official' moderation has seemed to come about because a few of the VLJ membership have considered these minimal regulations as unreasonable and that a more open, looser, version would be favorable. However, with no harmony of membership or administration control, this could easily become just another version of the wild wild west as various forums on the internet showcase.

 

[John Lever]

I still consider myself a relative newcomer here as I only joined a couple of years after everyone else had. Most were members of an Aero related group called something like 20th Century. As that wound down folk moved onto VLJ and I can remember Van, Bristolherc,Contrailchaser,Airfrogusmc,Poton and obviously Buzzthetower, Bfrench and Siddhartha. That was probably 15 years ago ?
The forum was vert different then as there were some very aggressive members who had been in the US forces and just went at each other hammer and tongs on a daily basis. There were others like The Spanish Flea and later Rottenhahn who were very entertaining (first time I had heard the phrase Cousin Humper ) but also very abusive. This lasted a while until they were banned and the self regulation was limited after the Eastman Redtails thread. On more than one occasion the forum faced litigation.

In all the cases where members were banned they had been requested to behave reasonably on several occasions , not to abuse other members and not to promote their agenda. What happened recently has been seen many times over the years but perhaps not by those who have only been here for 6 years or so.

 

[Vcruiser]

Yep, and, lest we forget, there was 'Night Ace' (or something like that) who claimed to be a Korea/Viet Nam aircraft carrier ace and posted here for quite awhile, until a member exposed him as a fraud. Night ace went completely nuts over that with all kinds of threats, until the member further revealed that the real 'Night Ace' lived in Florida and was actually the brother to the night ace imposter posting here (who had never been in the military). After all of Night Ace's years of posting of his heroics, with even photos and personal expert contradictory analysis of all things Navy & mouton, his phony bluster finally did him in. That may have been the most hilarious deception on the VLJ. Night Ace expertly played the unfairly picked on victim and fought every accusation until the very end.

 

[STEVE S.]

The Spanish Flea, Rottenhahn, & Night Ace.... Man, that is going back! Had forgotten about all of that stuff.. Was pretty humorous at times!

 

[Andrew]

Yep, and, lest we forget, there was 'Night Ace' (or something like that) who claimed to be a Korea/Viet Nam aircraft carrier ace and posted here for quite awhile, until a member exposed him as a fraud. Night ace went completely nuts over that with all kinds of threats, until the member further revealed that the real 'Night Ace' lived in Florida and was actually the brother to the night ace imposter posting here (who had never been in the military). After all of Night Ace's years of posting of his heroics, with even photos and personal expert contradictory analysis of all things Navy & mouton, his phony bluster finally did him in. That may have been the most hilarious deception on the VLJ. Night Ace expertly played the unfairly picked on victim and fought every accusation until the very end.

Pretty sure that was "Skeeter" Van (unless there was yet another)... Hilarious stuff. Still quite proud of the moment Contrailschaser was defrocked as a fraud by a secret group of VLJ ninjas too.

I say we should invite them all back at the same time and let them have at it- a bit like "Survivor Villains".

 

[Roughwear]

Yes I recall the guy being Skeeter too.

 

[Steve27752]

It was Skeeter.

 

[Vcruiser]

Pretty sure that was "Skeeter" Van (unless there was yet another)... Hilarious stuff. Still quite proud of the moment Contrailschaser was defrocked as a fraud by a secret group of VLJ ninjas too.

I say we should invite them all back at the same time and let them have at it- a bit like "Survivor Villains".

Can you imagine.. The Spanish Flea shouting 'Wanker' at everyone who dared vote him off the island, Skeeter with his team of attorneys landing on deck in the middle of the night wearing freshly patched and painted Contrailschaser original Night Ace combat fighter jackets as Platon jumps in exclaiming best in the world new nite-hide (unfortunately on back order), and then Rottenhahn insisting that under Natzi rule..none of this BS would be happening. Comments composed and strategically placed all throughout forum threads for the greater contribution and benefit for all. Amen

 

[John Lever]

The Spanish Flea was the nickname of Steve Niklodenski (or similar) but was was his name here ?

 

[Vcruiser]

Steve Nickodemski's forum name was 'Senicko'.

 

[John Lever]

Senicko!
Thanks Van

 

[Vcruiser]

John
The 'Classic 20th' was one of the first flight jacket forums. Anyone remember the older ELC 'Dejavu' forum (with Chas, Stu, Swing & Ken in attendance)? Because of the constant battles, it was finally closed except for certain jacket elite's posts. Then, when even they couldn't get along, the door was completely shut to any new postings...although it remained up and readable for quite awhile. A great exercise in what can happen to a forum when 'an anything goes' attitude is allowed to prevail until everyone is sick of it.

 

[John Lever]

Yes The Classic 20th, for those at the back of the bus as it said on the Aero website.

 

[bfrench]

Hi, Guys,

When you look at the VLJ history spread over 10 plus years it is surprising that we're still here. Plus we were bounced through three different servers and had multiple meltdowns such as the last one - fortunately we have most of that backed up and lost very little except at the very first year or so.

With the data loss, the learning curve over the political section we had and the members we had to deal with through moderating means it's a wonder were still here.

Oh, yes - as another bit of the forum history - when we deleted two members from here they started their own forum - and all over their first couple of paragraphs on their opening page was a diatribe against me including name and where I lived - it didn't take any longer than a few minutes to have that taken down by their host server - and that was the last of them.

I had contact with a military based forum looking for info about one of our members trying to pass himself off as a veteran even though he hadn't been in the military - that one was taken to court by the military and he was deservedly punished.

The other was later thrown off a watch forum - seems he didn't fit in with people their either.

That shows some of the tomfoolery Chris and I had to deal with and my penchant for having a members real email address.

The disclaimers on the Buy /Sell forum arose after some member from here stiffed a guy from Europe for the price of a leather jacket - we eventually had him connected to the police in the area where this guy lived - there wasn't any resolution but that member was made aware to the authorities.

Also - to the deletion being permanent - we allowed three members back over the years - each and every time it backfired.

The old adage "no good turn goes unpunished" sure did apply here.

We respect the right of every member to be opinionated but we don't accept them being disrespectful.

 

[ButteMT61]

Moderating and/or hosting a forum is quite possibly more thankless than raising kids!
I really appreciate all you guys have done and do.
Some drama is entertaining, but some is not. Thanks guys for the history as I'm a nOOb too!