welltailoredsuit
Member
I'd also like to know!
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A2 different contracts
- Thread starter London Cabbie
- Start date
Smithy
Well-Known Member
That was my understanding as well and also it was a saving on an extra piece of leather, which over time and thousands of jackets adds up to be quite a saving in material and of course one of the primary considerations of government, cost.
London Cabbie
Well-Known Member
Thankyou
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
Any savings in production time and materials added to the war effort. When you factor in 30000 collar straps that is a lot of leather and 'man-hours' (sorry ladies).
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Hi
This is a previous response from Silver Surfer (Vic) from a previous post asking the same question about the purpose of a collar stand.
The response is completely from Vic who has a wealth of knowledge about this and I’m only passing on his response because it’s pretty informative.
“in the beginning.......all of the original early contract a-2s had collar stands. the collar stand was a carry over from button up shirting of the 1920s-30s. and yes, the collar stand made for a more "upright" look, and because of the added height, it would cover the shirt worn under the a-2, thus making a neat look. by 1941, aero, dubow, and later contractors were doing away with collar stands, as a way to expediate manufacturing process, and save on leather. interestingly, rough wear, and perry continued to make their a-2s with collar stands, while all other makers made their jackets without them. a little unspoken variation in "regular" [non collar stand] collars is that some makers made their collars very even as seen front to back, side to side, while other makers made their collars slope down in the front, to improve comfort.”
This is a previous response from Silver Surfer (Vic) from a previous post asking the same question about the purpose of a collar stand.
The response is completely from Vic who has a wealth of knowledge about this and I’m only passing on his response because it’s pretty informative.
“in the beginning.......all of the original early contract a-2s had collar stands. the collar stand was a carry over from button up shirting of the 1920s-30s. and yes, the collar stand made for a more "upright" look, and because of the added height, it would cover the shirt worn under the a-2, thus making a neat look. by 1941, aero, dubow, and later contractors were doing away with collar stands, as a way to expediate manufacturing process, and save on leather. interestingly, rough wear, and perry continued to make their a-2s with collar stands, while all other makers made their jackets without them. a little unspoken variation in "regular" [non collar stand] collars is that some makers made their collars very even as seen front to back, side to side, while other makers made their collars slope down in the front, to improve comfort.”
London Cabbie
Well-Known Member
Thankyou totally informative. Now I just need to decide...
Serghei87
Well-Known Member
I have the same doubt as i am totally new in this area and looking to buy a first jacket. The slim fit version: does it short only on the waist or sholders as well? As i would like that the slim version doesnt touch the shoulders area. Thanks !
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
After decades of buying and selling these jackets... Comfort and wearability over what you 'think' it should look like.
Any top tier or well-made relatively authentic A-2 will look great and have a totally WW2 authentic look, either slim fit, comfort or anything in-between.
However, if your jacket feels a bit tight/trim, short or uncomfortable in any way, you will not want to wear it. And may eventually move it on, no matter how great you or anyone thinks it looks.
Some contracts in comfortable size may feel baggy, depends on contract. For example, Roughwears if sized up may droop off the shoulders a bit, but also depends on your body type.
Any top tier or well-made relatively authentic A-2 will look great and have a totally WW2 authentic look, either slim fit, comfort or anything in-between.
However, if your jacket feels a bit tight/trim, short or uncomfortable in any way, you will not want to wear it. And may eventually move it on, no matter how great you or anyone thinks it looks.
Some contracts in comfortable size may feel baggy, depends on contract. For example, Roughwears if sized up may droop off the shoulders a bit, but also depends on your body type.
Serghei87
Well-Known Member
First of all i want to thank you for the reply.
Taking into account your experience, in your opinion which contract/type of A2 would better suit me? Also which brand? By my measurements it is hard to know exactly as i have realized with some brands, size 42 would fit me and in others 44 or even 40. Not being able to see personally the jackets as i live in Luxembourg and i cannot find any shop around me, it is not easy to decide on the size and brand or contract nr.
My measurements are 55cm (21,65in) pit to pit and 45cm (17.71in) shoulder to shoulder and i am 175cm (68,89in) tall.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Hi Serge
I read your last post and without stepping on Bretta ‘s response I wanted to add to it that as you become involved in this hobby, one of the things you will learn is that knowing your personal measurements is essential to finding a good fitting A2. Personal measurements are usually considered as the following and can be taken from a well fitting jacket. Keep in mind that you can also measure your own body or torso, but I’ve found that using a well fitting jacket works best for me. With your jacket lying on a flat surface measure,
Shoulder seam to Shoulder seam, across the rear upper shoulders.
Armpit seam to armpit across the from of the jacket.
Shoulder seam down the length of the arm following the arm curve to the end of the sleeve.
Then measure the front zipper from under the chin down to the bottom part or end of the zipper.
Lastly flip the jacket over and measure the rear collar seam from the center of the rear collar down the middle of the back to the bottom of the jacket.
Now you”ll have a close estimate of your measurements. When someone sells a jacket these are usually the measurements that are given when talking about the dimensions of the jacket. This is more important than the size tag listed on the A2 jacket because, the answer to your question is that the sizes of different A2 contracts might be listed as a 42 or a 44 but the sizes differ among the same contract . So the short answer is know your personal measurements and disregard the size label. I hope that answered your question.
Cheers
PS use a tape measure it’s easier
I read your last post and without stepping on Bretta ‘s response I wanted to add to it that as you become involved in this hobby, one of the things you will learn is that knowing your personal measurements is essential to finding a good fitting A2. Personal measurements are usually considered as the following and can be taken from a well fitting jacket. Keep in mind that you can also measure your own body or torso, but I’ve found that using a well fitting jacket works best for me. With your jacket lying on a flat surface measure,
Shoulder seam to Shoulder seam, across the rear upper shoulders.
Armpit seam to armpit across the from of the jacket.
Shoulder seam down the length of the arm following the arm curve to the end of the sleeve.
Then measure the front zipper from under the chin down to the bottom part or end of the zipper.
Lastly flip the jacket over and measure the rear collar seam from the center of the rear collar down the middle of the back to the bottom of the jacket.
Now you”ll have a close estimate of your measurements. When someone sells a jacket these are usually the measurements that are given when talking about the dimensions of the jacket. This is more important than the size tag listed on the A2 jacket because, the answer to your question is that the sizes of different A2 contracts might be listed as a 42 or a 44 but the sizes differ among the same contract . So the short answer is know your personal measurements and disregard the size label. I hope that answered your question.
Cheers
PS use a tape measure it’s easier
Serghei87
Well-Known Member
That was a very detailed and helpful advise! Thank you so much!
I would like to take this chance and congratulate all the members of this forum/group.
As a New beginner, i have been Reading lots of articles here and i can see that everybody is respectful and helpful as well and i have been learning a lot of stuff from you all!
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Serghei, this is THE question! Its almost impossible to answer...
Are you looking for a top-tier jacket, one with exacting details and as authentic as possible?
Do you have a budget? How long do you want to wait for a jacket?
Would you prefer a new jacket or are you open to buying a secondhand one?
I am not far from you in size, with a 39.5cm chest, 18cm shoulder and am 181 tall... Approx
I wear a 42 original WW2 A-2, 40 to 42 in most high end repros...
I would think a 40, or 42 depending on A-2 contract, but I would check with the makers and hopefully some guys here will chime in with their ideas.
B-Man2's post on measurements is essential, usually worked out personally by trial and error..
I would say, purely as you are EU based, look at JaDubowmfg, Eastman, Bill Kelso and Aeroleather also. Thats my personal take.
Nothing against Goodwear or the like, but the extra postage and import costs from the US, and long wait times are not worth it.
If you want something a little less pricey, but still in the ball park of accuracy and authenticity, then look at AVI LTHR in Denmark, and 5 Star's A-2s.
There is Noble House, QMI.be and some other EU makers, but not as good as the above.
Buying EU, so much easier for you and in most cases would allow returns on standard size jackets.
As for which jacket specifically... Gosh. I would suggest looking at the above websites and seeing which jacket appeals to you.
To narrow it down, consider...
Seal brown or russet (as some contracts are only offered in one, like with Eastman).
Your body shape. Are you a triangle
(narrow shoulder with a bit of a belly), an inverted triangle (broad shoulders, narrow waist), a rectangular shape or just a boxy shape. Do you suffer from orangutan-syndrome like me? i.e. long arms
Collar stand or no collar stand?
Leather also makes such a difference. A stiff, thick horsehide takes time to beak in. But a more expensive horsehide offered by the top-tier makers above, at the correct thickness is easier to wear and often looks great right away. A softer goat by comparison is easy to wear out the box, but takes longer develop character.
This is why I love fit pics, because you can see how a specific jacket looks on a person.
I would not worry too much. Most of us here have gone through multiple jackets, and still looking, and discovering.
That said, and at risk of sounding like a broken record... Platon's Dubow (JaDubowmfg) is hard to beat. Its a top-tier A-2 at a ridiculous price. As good as any other top-tier maker easy! Don't get me wrong, I love Eastman's jackets, I love my Bill Kelso (have another on the way), I've had a number of Goodwear A-2s, and jackets from almost everyone else. But this original-maker jacket is as close to an original A-2 as you will get for a lot less than anyone else.
The trick is the fit. Only offered in standard sizes (size up! I went for a 42 and I'd hazard to say a 42 would fit you well also), and non-returnable. There are numerous reviews on this forum and pics!
If you want to test the waters so to speak and get an in-expensive jacket to start, look no further than AVI LTHR (easy returns and fantastic daily wearers) or Shawn's 5 Star Leather goatskin Doniger or Werber A-2.
A few hundred Euros and you have a great, relatively authentic, comfy and wearable A-2 and can then toy with spending a lot more on your next jacket.
My recent AVI Bronco is one of the most easy to wear A-2s Ive owned. Although not the most accurate Bronco pattern out there, most of the details and repro hardware is there. The goatskin is fantastic. I reach for this almost unconsciously running out the door.
Enjoy!
Are you looking for a top-tier jacket, one with exacting details and as authentic as possible?
Do you have a budget? How long do you want to wait for a jacket?
Would you prefer a new jacket or are you open to buying a secondhand one?
I am not far from you in size, with a 39.5cm chest, 18cm shoulder and am 181 tall... Approx
I wear a 42 original WW2 A-2, 40 to 42 in most high end repros...
I would think a 40, or 42 depending on A-2 contract, but I would check with the makers and hopefully some guys here will chime in with their ideas.
B-Man2's post on measurements is essential, usually worked out personally by trial and error..
I would say, purely as you are EU based, look at JaDubowmfg, Eastman, Bill Kelso and Aeroleather also. Thats my personal take.
Nothing against Goodwear or the like, but the extra postage and import costs from the US, and long wait times are not worth it.
If you want something a little less pricey, but still in the ball park of accuracy and authenticity, then look at AVI LTHR in Denmark, and 5 Star's A-2s.
There is Noble House, QMI.be and some other EU makers, but not as good as the above.
Buying EU, so much easier for you and in most cases would allow returns on standard size jackets.
As for which jacket specifically... Gosh. I would suggest looking at the above websites and seeing which jacket appeals to you.
To narrow it down, consider...
Seal brown or russet (as some contracts are only offered in one, like with Eastman).
Your body shape. Are you a triangle
(narrow shoulder with a bit of a belly), an inverted triangle (broad shoulders, narrow waist), a rectangular shape or just a boxy shape. Do you suffer from orangutan-syndrome like me? i.e. long arms Collar stand or no collar stand?
Leather also makes such a difference. A stiff, thick horsehide takes time to beak in. But a more expensive horsehide offered by the top-tier makers above, at the correct thickness is easier to wear and often looks great right away. A softer goat by comparison is easy to wear out the box, but takes longer develop character.
This is why I love fit pics, because you can see how a specific jacket looks on a person.
I would not worry too much. Most of us here have gone through multiple jackets, and still looking, and discovering.
That said, and at risk of sounding like a broken record... Platon's Dubow (JaDubowmfg) is hard to beat. Its a top-tier A-2 at a ridiculous price. As good as any other top-tier maker easy! Don't get me wrong, I love Eastman's jackets, I love my Bill Kelso (have another on the way), I've had a number of Goodwear A-2s, and jackets from almost everyone else. But this original-maker jacket is as close to an original A-2 as you will get for a lot less than anyone else.
The trick is the fit. Only offered in standard sizes (size up! I went for a 42 and I'd hazard to say a 42 would fit you well also), and non-returnable. There are numerous reviews on this forum and pics!
If you want to test the waters so to speak and get an in-expensive jacket to start, look no further than AVI LTHR (easy returns and fantastic daily wearers) or Shawn's 5 Star Leather goatskin Doniger or Werber A-2.
A few hundred Euros and you have a great, relatively authentic, comfy and wearable A-2 and can then toy with spending a lot more on your next jacket.
My recent AVI Bronco is one of the most easy to wear A-2s Ive owned. Although not the most accurate Bronco pattern out there, most of the details and repro hardware is there. The goatskin is fantastic. I reach for this almost unconsciously running out the door.
Enjoy!
London Cabbie
Well-Known Member
Brett hi,
Going by Platons Dubow measurements size 40 is perfect for a WW2 ‘slim’ fit which I would like for my first, but do you suggest I go 42 ‘size Up’ ultimately I will listen to the forums advice but will decide for myself.
If anyone else wants to jump in with advice please do...
Going by Platons Dubow measurements size 40 is perfect for a WW2 ‘slim’ fit which I would like for my first, but do you suggest I go 42 ‘size Up’ ultimately I will listen to the forums advice but will decide for myself.
If anyone else wants to jump in with advice please do...
Smithy
Well-Known Member
One thing I will say is that it's always better to be slightly too big than slightly too small.
There's a happy sweet spot for A-2 sizing, not so big that you're doing a Jerry Seinfeld and there's enough room in the torso to stuff a basketball. At the same time having it so tight that you can't wear a t-shirt, shirt and thin jumper is stupid.
Just remember the guys wearing these weren't wearing them tight in only a t-shirt. Don't make the mistake of going too trim because it won't be comfortable to wear and you'll end up not wearing it and selling it at a loss. It's a bit like a really nice pair of shoes, you want it so you're not flapping around in it but at the same time not so tight that you'll never wear it.
There's a happy sweet spot for A-2 sizing, not so big that you're doing a Jerry Seinfeld and there's enough room in the torso to stuff a basketball. At the same time having it so tight that you can't wear a t-shirt, shirt and thin jumper is stupid.
Just remember the guys wearing these weren't wearing them tight in only a t-shirt. Don't make the mistake of going too trim because it won't be comfortable to wear and you'll end up not wearing it and selling it at a loss. It's a bit like a really nice pair of shoes, you want it so you're not flapping around in it but at the same time not so tight that you'll never wear it.
London Cabbie
Well-Known Member
Smithy you have convinced me going size 42. Thankyou
mulceber
Moderator
Once you know how the measurements of a Dubow 42 fit on you, you can always compare those measurements to other contracts in order to get something with a somewhat tighter fit. And this almost certainly won’t be your last A-2, so you can afford to play it safe on your first one.
London Cabbie
Well-Known Member
Thankyou Mcawber.
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