A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jacket!

[havocpaul]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I have been following this thread with interest and now some concerns. As much as I applaud any new venture and the news of a good repro of an early Irvin with 'correct' hardware, a jacket I would certainly be interested in, I do find all this 'cloak and dagger' secrecy a bit of a poor show and yes, however much it is denied, the timing of the 'teasing' info so soon after Jon's announcement cannot have been a coincidence. I would have preferred to have seen it wait until at least production was closer, photos of an actual product were available and no matter who the 'secret' consortium/maker is, just a tentative pic of a zip and label hardly makes a whole Irvin! I haven't seen this kind of practice before in all the decades I have been collecting/buying/selling flight jackets. Gary Eastman, Ken Calder/Aero, John Chapman as far as I am aware announce a new jacket/product only when it can be shown and orders taken. Sure, competition is healthy but the way this has been handled is a bit 'low' IMO. As to who the mystery maker will be is hardly an issue, I am guessing toward Lewis Leathers or indeed Aero, but if it has been their, or the so-called 'consortium' (men in black/ secret squirrel!) desire to keep their identity 'secret' until nearer the time then no announcement needed to have been made just yet and not at a time to clearly undermine Jon's plans and hard work. I fear the way this has been handled will have damaged this new venture before it is off the ground (excuse the pun), for those who must have given Andrew the green light to go public and face the flak (no pun again) they need to re-assess their business plan and customer service before their reputation is tarnished for good. What a pity a little more thought and consideration wasn't made before this was announced, I can't see there's any excuses....

 

[John Lever]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I agree Paul. Timing has been very bad and resulted in a PR disaster, grief for Andrew and Jon.
I think though that it is good to remember that this forum is not the centre of the universe.
Any knowledge I had of the project was outside of this forum.


Maybe it is now time to end all promotion of financial enterprises by forum members.

 

[JDAM]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Good luck to all of you, whoever you are, and wherever you may be!

Unfortunately, the quality of the reproduction DOT zips in this thread seems lacking. You must improve your eye and your work. A very significant investment will have to be made to re-create the pre-war hardware.

An Irvin IS the quality of its Zips. There's nothing else to them really that is a challenge. If the zips are not accurately reproduced they will have limited or no appeal. The base metal must be of quality, and the tape strong.

I am aware of a project to manufacture an elite number of early war Irvin, using a small supply (25 original sets of main and sleeve zips as per below image) of recently discovered New-Old-Stock A.M zips. Due to the use of original parts, these will be essentially indistinguishable from the original. They are being priced accordingly. They are initially being offered to an exclusive group of only ten collectors, those who will not accept a B - as a pass mark. I am told they have been contacted directly. Please do not contact me for further information. I am not involved at all. You might find more information from the Aston Martin DB owners club.

 

[Dr H]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Now if you could source me a repro DB4GT, using NOS and at a sensible price I'd be in the line :mrgreen:
Nice zip...25 sets? A real barn find...
And no...predictably I was not one of the 10 :lol:

 

[deeb7]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I think though that it is good to remember that this forum is not the centre of the universe.

Where are you getting this information? :?

 

[Dr H]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Ah...You're not one of the 10 either DDD

 

[havocpaul]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I agree Paul. Timing has been very bad and resulted in a PR disaster, grief for Andrew and Jon.
I think though that it is good to remember that this forum is not the centre of the universe.
Any knowledge I had of the project was outside of this forum.


Maybe it is now time to end all promotion of financial enterprises by forum members.

I don't really have much sympathy for any grief Andrew may have as he's brought it on himself. Unless this hush-hush consortium has stood behind him with a gun to his head (figure of speech) then he had control of when he posted the announcement and it was the worst timing for Jon in particular. Hopefully the message will get back to these people and they take on board the negative feedback and maybe the next time we hear about it they have at least come out of 'hiding' and have a finished product to sell. I agree the forum is not the centre of the universe, but clearly members here are those they expect to be the primary purchasers of such a jacket and so maybe the forum is closer to the centre than we think. I have no issue with you John or anyone who might have been aware outside the forum, I expect your knowledge was a help too but all this silly 'show and tell' but 'say no more' is ridiculous and does have repercussions..badly handled and yes, a PR disaster!

 

[deeb7]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Ah...You're not one of the 10 either DDD

Apparently not, but there was definitely a John.

 

[coanda]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I feel this thread has gone far enough, Certainly the vitriol and some cases the abuse that has been shown to towards Andrew S is beyond the pail. Andrew has been asked to announce that "we" are finally nearing a position where a truly accurate reproduction of a 1938 Irvin Airchute jacket, is becoming a reality. This is in my case after very nearly 10 years of work with others involved.

I do feel that we have to apologise to Johnny over the timing of the release, what ever my protestations, it is never going to look to be coincidental, I/we will offer our sincere apologies for the timing. However as Johnny has said competition is not unhealthy.

With regard to our Jacket further information will be released when we are happy with the quality of the product. As has been alluded here this may well be some time further on. It has been a long time coming, it may well take a long time more. But until we are 100% satisfied no jacket will be released. Andrew’s involvement is to ensure that this pledge to 100% accuracy is honored.

With regard to what has been said about Andrew, all I can say is that from my and all those who have had the privilege of either working or being associated with him will confirm, he is a true gentlemen and a man of total integrity. The vitriol displayed here really has no place on this or any other forum.

Regards to all
Rick

 

[John Lever]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I agree Paul. Timing has been very bad and resulted in a PR disaster, grief for Andrew and Jon.
I think though that it is good to remember that this forum is not the centre of the universe.
Any knowledge I had of the project was outside of this forum.


Maybe it is now time to end all promotion of financial enterprises by forum members.

I don't really have much sympathy for any grief Andrew may have as he's brought it on himself. Unless this hush-hush consortium has stood behind him with a gun to his head (figure of speech) then he had control of when he posted the announcement and it was the worst timing for Jon in particular. Hopefully the message will get back to these people and they take on board the negative feedback and maybe the next time we hear about it they have at least come out of 'hiding' and have a finished product to sell. I agree the forum is not the centre of the universe, but clearly members here are those they expect to be the primary purchasers of such a jacket and so maybe the forum is closer to the centre than we think. I have no issue with you John or anyone who might have been aware outside the forum, I expect your knowledge was a help too but all this silly 'show and tell' but 'say no more' is ridiculous and does have repercussions..badly handled and yes, a PR disaster!

It's the old problem of mixing money and 'friends' I suppose. As I said in my post, perhaps the free use of the forum to promote financial enterprise should end ?

 

[flyboy]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Are we done?

I my professional life (advertising) I have not one - but several times been working my butt off on a campaign for one of our clients, only to see the competitor launch their campaign - with a very similar inside/idea - the day before our launch day.
What do you do? Nothing - except hope that your campaign attracts more viewers than the other. That simple.
It's the powers of the free market in action here.

When it all boils down, it's a matter of several things:
The quality of the product - and the price.
The image of the seller/producer. Are they trustworthy?
The personal taste of the buyer.

Personally I welcome both Jon and AM Jacket on the market - and I do believe there's room for both of them.
We all ready have ELC and Aero and ALC doing business here - so why not two producers who actually have great love for the Irvin, besides the bottom line.
And both of them are willing to produce jackets in the size of real men!!!

I welcome both of you and praise the choice we all get.

 

[JDAM]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Ah...You're not one of the 10 either DDD

Apparently not, but there was definitely a John.

The first ten are being supplied to what the manufacturers have rightly discerned to be 'worthy recipients', a mix of DB 6/7, Spitfire and Hurricane owners. Another 15 will be produced later in the year for the elite discreet collector network. The sheepskin is being sourced from animals who's ancestors are proven through DNA-testing of jackets to have contributed to the war effort in the Spring of 1939.

 

[RCSignals]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I feel this thread has gone far enough, Certainly the vitriol and some cases the abuse that has been shown to towards Andrew S is beyond the pail. Andrew has been asked to announce that "we" are finally nearing a position where a truly accurate reproduction of a 1938 Irvin Airchute jacket, is becoming a reality. This is in my case after very nearly 10 years of work with others involved.

I do feel that we have to apologise to Johnny over the timing of the release, what ever my protestations, it is never going to look to be coincidental, I/we will offer our sincere apologies for the timing. However as Johnny has said competition is not unhealthy.

With regard to our Jacket further information will be released when we are happy with the quality of the product. As has been alluded here this may well be some time further on. It has been a long time coming, it may well take a long time more. But until we are 100% satisfied no jacket will be released. Andrew’s involvement is to ensure that this pledge to 100% accuracy is honored.

With regard to what has been said about Andrew, all I can say is that from my and all those who have had the privilege of either working or being associated with him will confirm, he is a true gentlemen and a man of total integrity. The vitriol displayed here really has no place on this or any other forum.

Regards to all
Rick

After reading that all I can say is why even mention the jacket and project at this exact time? Why not wait until you actually have a tangible product to announce and show?
We now know that Andrew is not the only member of this consortium who is a member of this forum and as such not the only one to have known of Jon's announcement.
You are correct, the timing can never be looked at as coincidence.

 

[HHjackets]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Ah...You're not one of the 10 either DDD

Apparently not, but there was definitely a John.

... The sheepskin is being sourced from animals who's ancestors are proven through DNA-testing of jackets to have contributed to the war effort in the Spring of 1939.

that is taking it too far!! DNA approved!! will the label say: ancestor flew spitfire!!!

 

[omarco]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

As I said in my post, perhaps the free use of the forum to promote financial enterprise should end ?

I'm new around here but it seems to me that others seem to pull off the balance pretty well.

 

[John Lever]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Who are they ?

 

[omarco]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Who are they ?

There are a few aren't there? perhaps the fact that they don't stick out like a sore thumb is the point.

 

[ausreenactor]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

All you need is the label and you have the 'heart' of the repro! Get the pattern and shearling right and you are set. If someone were to buy a GBP500 original 1938 IAC, cut it to bits and build the uBer Repro around the original parts, then charge GBP2000! Would it be the bestest Repro ever!!

Hmmm.. :? While there is certainly scope to delve into the specifics of the RAF shearling heritage and get the machines cranking. It will certainly be a case of craftsman/men vs. the production line. Everyone will be fine...I am positive!

Couchy

 

[havocpaul]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I don't agree with Rick that comments made towards Andrew have been wrong, for the most part it has been a very fair criticism of the timing of his post and some of his follow-up comments, none of which did the product any favours. Now we know a little more, and as Rick says a sincere apology to Jon is needed then perhaps things will settle down, but it doesn't and won't take the bad taste away of how all this has been handled, and if Andrew had been told when to post and what to say then whoever made that decision needs to rethink their PR but then maybe that doesn't rate high on the agenda. No one doubts Andrew's knowledge of the Irvin in particular and I am sure his contribution has and will be invaluable, I just hope he hasn't suffered for others' choice of anonymity.

 

[John Lever]

Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Who are they ?

There are a few aren't there? perhaps the fact that they don't stick out like a sore thumb is the point.

My point was that they have websites and don't use the forum as a market place.