-
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jacket!
- Thread starter Roughwear
- Start date
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack
Did it ever exist in the first place ?
John Lever said:
Did it ever exist in the first place ?
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack
I've just read through the entire thread and it's upsetting to see posts from our sadly missed Dave. Also sad to see posts from my good mate Rich who left the forum because of this business. The photos of the uberzipper are gone. Interesting. As I said somewhere in the thread, good luck to Jonny. A comment from Andrew would be appreciated but I doubt that's going to happen.
I've just read through the entire thread and it's upsetting to see posts from our sadly missed Dave. Also sad to see posts from my good mate Rich who left the forum because of this business. The photos of the uberzipper are gone. Interesting. As I said somewhere in the thread, good luck to Jonny. A comment from Andrew would be appreciated but I doubt that's going to happen.
Andrew
Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack
Yes. Well i'm glad you've asked so i'll take this opp......
Aw sorry, couldn't resist. I've been wondering as well, and looking forward to seeing what the world's offering as í'd like to replace a few originals with an new original of my own one day and sadly I can only get one. Any further news AS? Is it DITW or just slowly evolving?
Yes. Well i'm glad you've asked so i'll take this opp......
Aw sorry, couldn't resist. I've been wondering as well, and looking forward to seeing what the world's offering as í'd like to replace a few originals with an new original of my own one day and sadly I can only get one. Any further news AS? Is it DITW or just slowly evolving?
Vcruiser
Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack
This thread and those persons involved within this thread have proven themselves unworthy for further comment from any of the elite group and certainly not deserving of the 50 once possibly offered...well..except for maybe one individual who ordered long ago and kept the secret silence. In fact..there may never be a public unveiling until all 50 are in the hands of the chosen. Then they may be flaunted upon the foolish whilst taunting the infidel.
This thread and those persons involved within this thread have proven themselves unworthy for further comment from any of the elite group and certainly not deserving of the 50 once possibly offered...well..except for maybe one individual who ordered long ago and kept the secret silence. In fact..there may never be a public unveiling until all 50 are in the hands of the chosen. Then they may be flaunted upon the foolish whilst taunting the infidel.
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Goodness. I had forgotten all about this PR disaster.
Were jackets actually made.
Did the righteous ( rich plane owners ) actually get presented with jackets.
Reading some of the posts brought back memories of a sadly missed lamppost leaning former member -David.
Did John Lever and his syndicate ever produce the ultimate Ram DNA foreskin multipanel version.
Now Carl what I wonder made you look this thread up. A tip off perhaps.
Last edited:
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Well make sure if you are ever in the market for an Irvin the sheepskins used on it have been registered and checked on Ancestry.com to confirm their great great great great grandparents skins were used on Irvin’s in the period 1938-1945.
Otherwise one could hardly say it’s authentic.
Otherwise one could hardly say it’s authentic.
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
WOW......................What a thread. While I was (oviously) aware of this whole saga in 2012 (Aero, behind my back were the "Makers")
but I've never read the entire thread, I wan't a member at the time as far as I recall and we were too busy dealing with other frauds at the factory at the time.
What I will do is reread very carefully through the whole thread and post what I do know.
Re the legendary Sheep Pelts.........they are still sitting in the Aero factory, 100 of them, they are useless and totally unsuitable for clothing, we've asked every sheepskin tanners we know if there is anything that can be done to make them usable, all say no!
Which of the cartel members (there were 4) actually chose them made a huge goof but it didn't cost them any £££s, Aero paid for them, presumably to recoup the VAT. Sadly Aero never managed to recoup the £5000 spent on the sheepskin for the project on behalf of AM Clothing, and believe me, we have tried! Didn't get our zippers back either.
but I've never read the entire thread, I wan't a member at the time as far as I recall and we were too busy dealing with other frauds at the factory at the time.
What I will do is reread very carefully through the whole thread and post what I do know.
Re the legendary Sheep Pelts.........they are still sitting in the Aero factory, 100 of them, they are useless and totally unsuitable for clothing, we've asked every sheepskin tanners we know if there is anything that can be done to make them usable, all say no!
Which of the cartel members (there were 4) actually chose them made a huge goof but it didn't cost them any £££s, Aero paid for them, presumably to recoup the VAT. Sadly Aero never managed to recoup the £5000 spent on the sheepskin for the project on behalf of AM Clothing, and believe me, we have tried! Didn't get our zippers back either.
Last edited:
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
Not a bad idea but not something we'd want to put up on our site, can I put you down for one, free postage :>)
I've asked the factory to send me a photo
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
It would appear this project collapsed due to it’s secrecy and Sheepskin selection.
Although Aero had been intended as the maker from day, Will Lauder had decided to make this one of his private "off the books" scams, for those who aren’t aware he was Aero’s MD 2004-2012 before being fired in Sept 2012 and later jailed for 21 months for some of his “indiscretions”
Problem 1. The Patterns
Aero’s old Irvin was much criticised for it’s sleeve pattern, the Military Sheepskin section was started around 1990 quite separate from Aero’s usual production and put in charge of a young girl who with little help, all in all, made a really good job of it except for the Irvin Sleeve pattern. Very few complained so it was never sorted. Fast forward nearly 20years to when the AM project was born although Aero had a couple of very good Sheepskin machinists, there was nobody who was capable of doing the patterns other than myself, but WL would have known that he couldn’t ask me to cut a new set of patterns without arousing suspicion
Problem 2. The Zippers
I did get wind from one of the machinist that we suddenly had more original Dot zippers ……..We’d had a few hundred deadstock that got used up (wasted) in the early1990s……. I wasn’t supposed to know this, WL explained it was one repro and he was trying to get more made, after some pressing over a few weeks to see what these looked like I was sent an original Dot puller which was purporting to be the “repro”. I knew it was original as soon as I saw it, which in some way. led to me nosing into the running of Aero and eventually leading to WL’s spell in Barlinnie .
I found we’d been buying an awful lot of Irvin Trousers on ebay but, after WL had been fired, I found these, everyone had had it’s zippers removed. More questioning let to me finding out these zippers had been sent to one of the AM cartel who apparently has engineering skills. Having recently found out that our Russian stockist has been having used WW2 era zippers restored to like new, I can only imagine these were/were going to be restored. See pic of restored Soviet zipper
Problem 3. The Labels
I can assure “AM Clothing” that it wouldn’t have been long before Aviation Leathercraft kicked off about the reg name, they are quite ligations
Problem 4. The Sheepskin
I can only assume this was bought from the back of a Range Rover in a unlit carpark at midnight
Shame is if this had been all done above board and had Aero’s part not been so clandestine, the finished jacket would have been perfect, and I blame WL for that although the others were hardly forthcoming with the truth when it was obvious I had found out about it.
Although Aero had been intended as the maker from day, Will Lauder had decided to make this one of his private "off the books" scams, for those who aren’t aware he was Aero’s MD 2004-2012 before being fired in Sept 2012 and later jailed for 21 months for some of his “indiscretions”
Problem 1. The Patterns
Aero’s old Irvin was much criticised for it’s sleeve pattern, the Military Sheepskin section was started around 1990 quite separate from Aero’s usual production and put in charge of a young girl who with little help, all in all, made a really good job of it except for the Irvin Sleeve pattern. Very few complained so it was never sorted. Fast forward nearly 20years to when the AM project was born although Aero had a couple of very good Sheepskin machinists, there was nobody who was capable of doing the patterns other than myself, but WL would have known that he couldn’t ask me to cut a new set of patterns without arousing suspicion
Problem 2. The Zippers
I did get wind from one of the machinist that we suddenly had more original Dot zippers ……..We’d had a few hundred deadstock that got used up (wasted) in the early1990s……. I wasn’t supposed to know this, WL explained it was one repro and he was trying to get more made, after some pressing over a few weeks to see what these looked like I was sent an original Dot puller which was purporting to be the “repro”. I knew it was original as soon as I saw it, which in some way. led to me nosing into the running of Aero and eventually leading to WL’s spell in Barlinnie .
I found we’d been buying an awful lot of Irvin Trousers on ebay but, after WL had been fired, I found these, everyone had had it’s zippers removed. More questioning let to me finding out these zippers had been sent to one of the AM cartel who apparently has engineering skills. Having recently found out that our Russian stockist has been having used WW2 era zippers restored to like new, I can only imagine these were/were going to be restored. See pic of restored Soviet zipper
Problem 3. The Labels
I can assure “AM Clothing” that it wouldn’t have been long before Aviation Leathercraft kicked off about the reg name, they are quite ligations
Problem 4. The Sheepskin
I can only assume this was bought from the back of a Range Rover in a unlit carpark at midnight
Shame is if this had been all done above board and had Aero’s part not been so clandestine, the finished jacket would have been perfect, and I blame WL for that although the others were hardly forthcoming with the truth when it was obvious I had found out about it.
Last edited:
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Very interesting to see the story presented in this way.
Hardly then ... the Ultimate .....
Thanks for this update.
Who were the members of the “AM cartel “ as you put it.
Did it include WL representing Aero ?
Does that suggest it is a project that could in some way be resurrected in the here and now correctly managed correctly by Aero ?
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
The four members include WL and he was representing his own interests, not Aero's. At least two of the other three are VLJ Members, they've ID'ed themselves in the thread
Put it this way, it's only zippers that's prevents Aero making such a jacket, same for every other Irvin repro maker.
We have everything else we need, the young lads working on our sheepskins these days have no equal that I've seen, it's not the easiest material to work with.
We are currently pricing a similar zipper in Japan for an export customers project, not an Irvin. It will be interesting to get an idea of roughly how much a 100% accurate Dot would cost, and how many would have to be ordered.
John Lever
Moderator
Ken, I know this issue has grieved you but please resolve any issues with anyone involved outside of this forum.
