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74th Fighter Squadron
- Thread starter a2jacketpatches
- Start date
Based upon a little research I did about ten years ago, I believe the later 23rd 'shield' patches were hand-made by a leather worker in Eastern India. Calcutta, if I recall correctly. They were commissioned / delivered to 23 FG personnel around Christmas of 42. I think I even had the name and address of the crafts shop at one stage. The half dozen 23rd 'shield' patches that I have seen are all very, very similar and use the same hide and paint.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Very cool, I remember the round version being in an Ebay auction a while back. And what are your thoughts on the gold foil border version at the top? I'm willing to bet it's a modern copy of the original India made patch as I'm not sure the materials were available back then especially in India. Gold leaf was very expensive and a difficult process. All 23rd FG's I've seen are obviously painted leather considering it's always flaking off.
It is true that some patches were made by GI's, most likely the very simple painted ones or work painted directly on the jacket. For example a stenciled one or two color patch. Not that there's no exceptions to that, but most quality painted patches would be done by someone with the right materials and time to do them, local artisans. I'm willing to go out on a limb about multi-piece leather patches and say most were done in India, some in China, and I never say never but will say next to none done by GI's. Also, you may find up to a few versions of an individual patch that are legit, but the versions are not endless. It would be more typical for the emblem of a squadron to be done in quantity by the same craftsman with only slight variations if any to each patch. To do even ten patches like these 23rd FG's could take a 40 hour work week and most GI's didn't have that to spare.
It is true that some patches were made by GI's, most likely the very simple painted ones or work painted directly on the jacket. For example a stenciled one or two color patch. Not that there's no exceptions to that, but most quality painted patches would be done by someone with the right materials and time to do them, local artisans. I'm willing to go out on a limb about multi-piece leather patches and say most were done in India, some in China, and I never say never but will say next to none done by GI's. Also, you may find up to a few versions of an individual patch that are legit, but the versions are not endless. It would be more typical for the emblem of a squadron to be done in quantity by the same craftsman with only slight variations if any to each patch. To do even ten patches like these 23rd FG's could take a 40 hour work week and most GI's didn't have that to spare.
The gold leaf on the one at the top is particularly reflective and 'shiny' because of the glass in-front of it and the angle of the shot. Nonetheless, it's a 100% legit patch. The other three patches below and the other posted on the previous page are all the same, with gold leaf (or similar gold-like substance) on the edging. Some has worn off but that's the way they all started. It may have been expensive, but the materials existed in India and there were plenty of skilled craftsmen to use it. They catered for the Raj princes and British empire in all its glory, after all. A large portion of the gilded tunics of the British army were tailored in India or Singapore or Hong Kong.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
JDAM said:
Gotcha, Always looked yellow to me but what you say makes complete sense. Are you saying the gold in photo#1 is more reflective than in reality? Or is it more like gold paint? If foil, I've got the perfect leather for it but the worn examples look like paint from here. Thanks for the clarification on this, I've got a large ziplock of leathers in anticipation for making the most accurate repro of this patch possible. Also, any chance you've got an exact measurement?
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Copy that, very much appreciated.
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TankBuster
Active Member
Here is a ID'd one from my personal collection.
6148th T.C.Squadron
Member
Nice original condition, very nice indeed.
Great to have another 23rd patch posted from someones collection!
Jeff, ref. this thread...
viewtopic.php?p=153922#p153922
What are your views on the CATF/23rd patches? You think they're painted leather, or they just backed the hand-embroidered silk patches onto leather and/or added a leather border?
Jeff, ref. this thread...
viewtopic.php?p=153922#p153922
What are your views on the CATF/23rd patches? You think they're painted leather, or they just backed the hand-embroidered silk patches onto leather and/or added a leather border?
TankBuster
Active Member
Thanks Simon.
Reg the early 23rd patches, like yourself, I believe they are the silk versions sewn to a backing of some sort. The silk panel patches are seen from time to time and that makes the most sense. Here is a panel that is part of the same grouping I mentioned previously.
The embroidered patch in the other thread just does not look right and like you mentioned, may have just been a movie prop. I've never seen one on a legit jacket or in a legit 23rd grouping at all.
Reg the early 23rd patches, like yourself, I believe they are the silk versions sewn to a backing of some sort. The silk panel patches are seen from time to time and that makes the most sense. Here is a panel that is part of the same grouping I mentioned previously.
The embroidered patch in the other thread just does not look right and like you mentioned, may have just been a movie prop. I've never seen one on a legit jacket or in a legit 23rd grouping at all.
