-
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
What do you guys think about this patch?
- Thread starter bazelot
- Start date
tonyknowles
Member
I dont think its ww2, the style and graphic are wrong, if I had to guess I would say late 1940's early 1950's. The nelson/parsons US Navy Air patches book describes the sunday punchers insignia as:
formed in 1943 as bombing 18, the insignia as shown in 1948 was a "pugnacious boy wearing boxing gloves and riding on a bomb, the words "sunday and "punchers" appear on his left and right." A photo later in the book shows a similar insignia as the auction, but the flight gear and aircraft (skyraider) would indicate 1960's. The squadron designation was changed in 1950 to VA-75 so it is probably a transition squadron patch, another thought would be a reunion patch.
my two cents
formed in 1943 as bombing 18, the insignia as shown in 1948 was a "pugnacious boy wearing boxing gloves and riding on a bomb, the words "sunday and "punchers" appear on his left and right." A photo later in the book shows a similar insignia as the auction, but the flight gear and aircraft (skyraider) would indicate 1960's. The squadron designation was changed in 1950 to VA-75 so it is probably a transition squadron patch, another thought would be a reunion patch.
my two cents
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
tonyknowles said:
Mine too Tom.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Very typical 50's construction. Boy Scouts, Military, I just picked up some Chevrolet patches from the 50's just like it.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
I would take it as described. The seller has sold off a flying helmet, flight suit, USN Officer's visor quite cheaply. I guess this one as the last item of Dad's was priced a bit higher? Construction looks right and the provenance appears to be there. I am sure the seller would be selling it cheaply as a reunion piece if that is what she knew it to be. I would not question the integrity of this seller at all. If she was after big coin she would have listed her sold items with higher start prices. I am sure if she had a brother the patch would not be on offer right now. I would never sell my Dad's kit, knowingly. 
Couchy
Couchy
tonyknowles
Member
My reference lists the change from vb to va in 1950.
Navy squadron designations are sometimes hazy....
Navy squadron designations are sometimes hazy....
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
bazelot said:
Didn't say it was made in the 50's, I did say typical of 50's patches. Lots of stuff embroidered on twill with cheese cloth backing. You see a lot of civy patches made that way and with tonyknowles input, maybe I'm just supporting the reunion patch theory a bit. This design is not the war time version of a boy on a bomb, reference to the VB designation going up to 1950, etc. I don't question the integrity of the family, but actual detailed knowledge concerning the origin of a 60 plus year old patch? Yes I do. Maybe WW2, maybe not, I don't know for sure. But I think more likely a fully embroidered patch during the war and as described.
This is a family member describing the patch from the info at hand, simple as that, U.S. Naval Air Force?
"WWII US Naval Air Force Patch from the Bombing 18 (VB-18)"
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
Gee, the boys are really pounding you on this one!a2jacketpatches said:
The only aspect of your posts that I might disagree with is pegging this patch in the 50's....it is more likely a 60's or early 70's manufacture.
I don't think the seller is trying to cheat anyone, she just knows it was her father's....not that it is really a $10 patch.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
unclegrumpy said:
eBay has dictated it is a $100 patch now. The bidder has hefty feedback. I would say the buyer to be really wants it. I assume they would be hard pressed to find another one in a hurry?
Couchy
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
unclegrumpy said:
Well you know how it can get here. Anyway, once again, not saying or pegging this patch to be 1950's, and as a matter of fact you've probably got it right as later. But I have several civy patches right here in front of me that are made exactly the same way and most certainly from the 50's. Can't go by what the Daughter says, she's just innocently going by what is clearly stated on the patch and maybe some paperwork or something. Anyway, seems like a lot of guess work here on the forum and I'm just offering my experience with patches. As opposed to jackets like most of the guys here, patches have been my focus for the past 15 years or so. That's also why you'll never see me second guess some of the more knowledgeable jacket guys when it comes to original jacket details.
I could have easily spent thousands of dollars on hundreds of dollars worth of patches over the years, but instead, I bought the books needed to properly ID the stuff.
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
The question was what people thought of the patch.ausreenactor said:
I agree, a '60's reunion patch from this squadron might be really tough to find, but then again the "magic" of eBay is they found something even rarer....a buyer willing to pay stupid money for one.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
unclegrumpy said:
Copy that.
Here's an example of a patch that guys are spending crazy money on all the time. not this one in particular, but the same maker for sure. Most recently right here on this forum a similar patch was discussed, different unit, same maker. Note the very nice and authentic looking hand embroidery. Unfortunately the backs are not displayed on the ebay site anymore and I'm wondering why, a dead giveaway to me. But these show up from time to time after being dipped in a tea cup and sell for over a hundred bucks. You can have for 55- and a cup of tea from one ebay seller, or pay triple from another, up to you. When I put my two cents in the thread that was discussing one of these dipped patches, I got the same kind of reaction as in this thread.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
unclegrumpy said:
Perhaps next time indicate you only want opinions that parallel yours. Makes it easier for people to support your opinion 100%.
If you were chasing opinions on the patch only then a picture of the patch would have been great. The eBay link, where a collector is eagerly
paying $100 for it adds weight to the possibility it could be desirable. If the seller listed it as a reunion patch there is also the possibility
it could be going for the very same $100 start bid. Nylon, merrowed edge, modern repro patches that barely imitate the original regularly fetch up to $25 on eBay. This seller has removed her head from her arse and offers international shipping, which has opened her item to the world.
I took a look through every patch forum and site I know of and I could not find one, let alone one for $5? Let's see what people think of the patch at the end of the auction. The final price and feedback will be very accurate indicators of what people think of it.
Couchy
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Started at a hundred and I'm betting a buck it stays at a hundred. If it started at five and was at a hundred, I'd say that's a good indicator of desirability. Otherwise I've seen countless times with my own items, zero watchers for seven days and then bam, someone buys it.
I really don't think anyone here is knocking the patch or the seller, just giving opinion to what it actually is. Many a time I wish something was what it wasn't. This buyer either knows more than we do, or he doesn't. If the patch stays and sells at a hundred, that should say it all.
I really don't think anyone here is knocking the patch or the seller, just giving opinion to what it actually is. Many a time I wish something was what it wasn't. This buyer either knows more than we do, or he doesn't. If the patch stays and sells at a hundred, that should say it all.
bazelot
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate everyone's point of view and it confirms my original idea about WWII patches. I listed the same question on the USMilitaria forum and there seems to be a consensus that it is WWII vintage there.
Just to explain things a bit I got the same patch from the same seller (she had two) a few days ago. I basically bought a grouping of documents maps, patches, photos, ranks and medals from the seller who is the daughter of the pilot. The 2 squadron patches along with 3 leather patches for flight jackets where found in a VB-18 1st strike booklet that contains photo recon of VB-18's first strike, I guess for learning material for subsequent strikes (actually a very interesting piece of VB-18 history in itself and dated August 44). Stuck in the booklet were the patches with all the docs. Everything she just sold on Ebay was in the same box and all the items were WWII items, not post war or reproductions. All the maps from the pacific are marked in pencil from areas of interest.
What I am trying to say is that everything was in the same box with only wartime stuff. Now I am no expect in patches but I love provenance and I had to get one of the patches she had along with the rest of the stuff. At the end of the day it could be a reunion patch, as anything is possible, but the fact that it was with all those items from WWII in the same box with no other reunion items makes me believe deep down it is genuine.
Patches as a whole are a matter of faith. Unless it is attached to a jacket with true provenance (and even that can be debatable sometimes) then they are ALL suspicious in my mind. Reproductions are getting better and better and fakers savvier and savvier about their trade and patches is the one area I steer clear of because of this very fact. I decided to get this one because at least it has good provenance.
Just to explain things a bit I got the same patch from the same seller (she had two) a few days ago. I basically bought a grouping of documents maps, patches, photos, ranks and medals from the seller who is the daughter of the pilot. The 2 squadron patches along with 3 leather patches for flight jackets where found in a VB-18 1st strike booklet that contains photo recon of VB-18's first strike, I guess for learning material for subsequent strikes (actually a very interesting piece of VB-18 history in itself and dated August 44). Stuck in the booklet were the patches with all the docs. Everything she just sold on Ebay was in the same box and all the items were WWII items, not post war or reproductions. All the maps from the pacific are marked in pencil from areas of interest.
What I am trying to say is that everything was in the same box with only wartime stuff. Now I am no expect in patches but I love provenance and I had to get one of the patches she had along with the rest of the stuff. At the end of the day it could be a reunion patch, as anything is possible, but the fact that it was with all those items from WWII in the same box with no other reunion items makes me believe deep down it is genuine.
Patches as a whole are a matter of faith. Unless it is attached to a jacket with true provenance (and even that can be debatable sometimes) then they are ALL suspicious in my mind. Reproductions are getting better and better and fakers savvier and savvier about their trade and patches is the one area I steer clear of because of this very fact. I decided to get this one because at least it has good provenance
.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
a2jacketpatches said:
It's now at $112.50.
