USAF use of Army nomex jackets?

[FtrPlt]

No worries. My reply was a retort to those who would argue in support of flight gear.

Now they're talking about UAV pilots overseeing/monitoring multiple aircraft and taking control of them as needed. I've read there's an autoland feature and that the sensor operators have limited control of the aircraft (circle to observe, etc).

 

[FtrPlt]

Noticed that several of the USAF-badged Army flight jackets are now down off the LJM site. Not particularly noteworthy until I noticed one of the Army-badged jackets has sprouted some additional badging.

Here's a current image:

And here's the image from post #1 of this thread. Note the second jacket from the left with the yellow/black 1st Cav patch. Now look at the above photo. Notice the plastic-encased CPT bars have suddenly appeared on the above photo? Things like this do not give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Makes you wonder what badging the new-in-bag jackets will be sporting down the road?

 

[Rutger]

Do ya think they're the same? I can't see the red edge on the blue chest patch on the lower pic, so it might be a different one. Would the presence of rank be much of a money maker compared with the same one without?

 

[FtrPlt]

I thought the same thing about the patch. I'm pretty sure they're the same jacket and the red is likely being partially blocked by the jacket fabric. If you look at the horse-head, the fold on the patch is in the same place.

Does adding rank change the value? Not really.

What it does show (to me) is that these are not untouched, as-acquired pieces. They're being tarted-up to make them sell. So my next question is whether these are/were all unbadged jackets that have had everything added to them? And, if you're willing to badge up these, what else is being messed with? Credibility issue for me.

 

[Monsoon]

I thought the same thing about the patch. I'm pretty sure they're the same jacket and the red is likely being partially blocked by the jacket fabric. If you look at the horse-head, the fold on the patch is in the same place.

Does adding rank change the value? Not really.

What it does show (to me) is that these are not untouched, as-acquired pieces. They're being tarted-up to make them sell. So my next question is whether these are/were all unbadged jackets that have had everything added to them? And, if you're willing to badge up these, what else is being messed with? Credibility issue for me.

I always think, "sum of the parts". As long as the value of the jacket plus whatever patches that are applied are the same as if you bought them all separate, then it's OK.

But as you said, it's one of those things that make you go, "hmmmmmm..."

 

[FtrPlt]

All well and good in theory. When you super-size the scenario, to me it gets pretty glaring. Which would you rather own? The actual flightsuit in this photo or a badged-up suit which looks exactly like it? My guess would be that this suit is worth considerably more than the sum of its components. (photo via: jetpilotoverseas)

The same is often true for other named items/groupings although (usually) on a far less grand scale.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I just eyeballed both pics and in the close-up the patch is considerably higher than the the jacket on the hanger. It's bunched up a little but not enough to bring the patch up that high. It is very close to that first break in the collar. Not the same jacket, I'm certain of it.

 

[FtrPlt]

I just eyeballed both pics and in the close-up the patch is considerably higher than the the jacket on the hanger. It's bunched up a little but not enough to bring the patch up that high. It is very close to that first break in the collar. Not the same jacket, I'm certain of it.

Interesting but not sure I'm sold yet. In the group photo, look at the jacket to the right of the 1st Cav jacket. Note how low the collar hangs. Now look at the jacket on the far right and note how high the collar is. Perspective changes due to the hanger shape, how far the jacket is zipped up; how it's sitting on the hanger; and camera angle.

The top edge of the black line on the Cav patch (on the right edge) is fairly well centered on the 52nd Aviation patch and this relationship is the same for both photos, despite the different camera angles and jacket drape.

Personally I hope you're right and they're not the same jacket.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

The photo of multiple jackets is pretty much horizontal and a sdead on square shot give or take an inch. And the silgle jacket lying flat is about the same as if on a hanger. If you superimposed one over the other they are about the same position. One patch is much lower than the other. And I don't thin the Captain bars add much more than 10 bucks, do they?

 

[FtrPlt]

I don't think the addition of the CPT rank adds much, if anything.

A little bit of a tangent but the other question I had with the Army jackets shown is the use of full-color patches. The Army went to subdued in VN and even the MA-1/L-2B predecessors to the nomex sported aubdued. Here'a class photo from 1972. Not the greatest but the jackets are clearly showing subdued name/branch tapes.

I attended flight school at Ft Rucker in 1985/86 and about half of the pilots at my first unit were wearing the early-issue nomex with sewn-on name/branch like this one:

I can't speak for the years between these two images (~1973-83) but my suspicions are that subdued badging was probably the official army standard.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

A few months back I found a Korean hand guided embroidery USAF Red Horse Construction Battalion Patch, subdued. Thought it was in country VN era made but a guy on USMF told me that few if any Air Force patches were subdued in VN. The unit was in Korea after VN war so all made sense. Army on the other hand, most of what I find for the ground pounder stuff is subdued and a lot of it in country made. I picked up a large amount of 2nd pattern Jungle Fatigues one day at the estate sale of a Lt. Colonel and all of his insignia was machine embroidered subdued directly into the jackets. I believe the second pattern was issued in 68 but that doesn't mean it wasn't done later. Only once in a while have I found the yellow Army tapes, and they are on the early OG 107 fatigues. So I'd think most of the war was subdued.

 

[FtrPlt]

Plus it's a given that these OG-106 nomex jackets are post-Vietnam. The LJM site gives dates and I think the oldest one listed in 1976. As I said earlier, the early years of the lightweight flyers jacket pre-dates my Army service by about 8 years so I have no firsthand knowledge of how badging was worn during the transition from MA-1 to the nomex.

 

[Monsoon]

All well and good in theory. When you super-size the scenario, to me it gets pretty glaring. Which would you rather own? The actual flightsuit in this photo or a badged-up suit which looks exactly like it? My guess would be that this suit is worth considerably more than the sum of its components.

When they start putting patches on flight suits to sell them as having been worn by someone famous, etc, that's a whole new ballgame!

 

[watchmanjimg]

On the issue of color patches on Army jackets post-Vietnam, I agree that this is suspicious on a late '70s-dated garment. The wearer of the jacket depicted below was apparently a 1st Cav Vietnam War veteran but in addition to service in that conflict it seems the 52nd Aviation Battalion had elements in Korea as of 1979, so it's possible he could have served in this unit in Vietnam, post-Vietnam War Korea, or both. The year 1979 is significant here because the patch above the nameplate commemorates the "Ulchi Focus Lens '79" joint-forces operation.

My guess is this one was simply patched up in a "tour" configuration. If it's a mock-up it would appear to have been done in furtherance of a rather obscure impression.

 

[watchmanjimg]

I believe the second pattern was issued in 68 but that doesn't mean it wasn't done later.

The second-pattern jungle fatigues are from '65-'66 but were definitely worn later, probably throughout the conflict as available. I've also seen examples of later jackets locally modified with epaulets and waist tabs. :lol:

 

[a2jacketpatches]

OK, I must be thinking of something else as I've been studying up on a lot of VN stuff since moving to vegas. There seems to be a lot of it here. Was it the ERDL JJ I'm thinking of? Anyway, I got that Lt.Col lot a while back on Cape Cod. I believe 3 of the 2nd pattern rip stop with the direct embroidered U.S. Army and Name with Oak leaves. And at least 5 sets of the poplins all NOS and blank. I paid 10 bucks a set and they were all size large. Last year in Pahrump Nevada, I found an unheard of 2XL JJ.