The Aero Theead 2.0

[a2jacketpatches]

Here's a nice long discussion (one of many over the years at TFL) regarding this topic.
As if it's not been discussed enough, but here it is.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...luding-undisclosed-upcharge-on-overseas-sales

Thanks very much, that was simple. Sorry, haven't followed everything there ever was here and lost interest there as quick as it started. Jeez, you'd think I was asking the Feds about UFO's or something :lol:

Hey, maybe I'll start charging for those free Priority Mail shipping envelopes. And if anyone asks.........

 

[Otter]

I don't think this thread is doing anything other than re-hashing old hurts and forstering yet more bad feeling.

 

[Vcruiser]

Why, of course. It has more 'Aero' in the title.

 

[Big J]

Sorry Van, just thought that the beloved Van may have some Van insight when someone actually asked......Van :lol:

If you ignore the answers, then how can you ever expect to gain any insight..?

OK Van, keep dodging the direct question like everyone else. Not criticizing, it's a direct question that I have not seen answered yet. World doesn't revolve around my patch business but I am in the game. I'm left to assume funny business and pass that on to whoever asks.

Gee, why don't you just mail Aero and ask them? Their mail address isn't exactly a secret. Post their reply here, so that I can laugh at you when you try to imply some sort of 'funny business' is going on.
:lol:

 

[Big J]

Just asking Van because Van will most likely pop in and settle all wherever it is anyway. Was just guessing that Van probably knows the skinny on that situation or Van could at the very least justify it. It was brought up in the Aero thread and avoided as if nobody noticed so I'm trying to avoid "resurrecting" the trial. You see, believe it or not, there's countless potential flight jacket prospects out there that think patches before the jacket and ask me who I recommend. Quality? I've patched up Aero's along with everyone else and they are top notch without a doubt. But are they charging a VAT fee that should not be charged? I am honest with my customers and wouldn't want to recommend a dishonest company. You being a self appointed liaison to Aero, just thought you may be of some help since nobody else will acknowledge.

C'mon Van, what's it gonna take? A free patch? Few bucks via Paypal? :lol:

No..what it will take is simply starting a thread with the topic: Aero VAT thing. That in no way resurrects the Aero trial or hijacks into a different subject. Here's another helpful hint...get over the self centered egotistical portrayal that everything is all about you and your patch business, and perhaps those you may be unfairly criticizing might agree to post specific answers to your questions. However, somehow, I think that would lead to a long argument of repeating yourself in post after post and then finally attempting to make excuses as to how you've been somewhat wronged and misunderstood.
Give it a try, though. What have you got to lose..?? Best of luck.

Wow! :lol: . The self-appointed "forum police" has the nerve to call someone else egotistical?

DD

Coming from the man in the crusher cap. How many missions did you fly? Oh...it's just for you ego!

 

[Big J]

I don't think this thread is doing anything other than re-hashing old hurts and forstering yet more bad feeling.

Might as well rename the thread 'Trolling Aero'. :roll:

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

This what Holly said on the 07-29-2012, in answer to Suin Bruin's original question ......Nothing has changed since..........

The factory is closed for a 2 week holiday, but I've just noticed this thread and wanted to respond to assure you we're not dodging the issue. I won't be able to respond regularly as I'm on holiday for most of this time too, but here's our response.

We do, and always have, had one price Worldwide. It is standard practice in Europe is to list items for sale at a price that includes VAT, how many European firms deduct any proportion of that price relating to the VAT on exports I couldn’t say.

When we first started Aero over 90% of our production went to trade customers with very little retail other than in The UK.

Once we started to make Horsehide jackets we found strong price resistance in The UK while our overseas market increased. The bottom line was that if we wanted any home market we were going to have to swallow the loss of the VAT content of the price we get in The UK or price ourselves out of The UK market. As these sales were such a small portion of our sales it seemed a price worth paying. Basically we were/are supplementing our UK retail business by taking the loss, rather that overcharging our export customers.

In the same way the volume of our trade sales keep the prices down on all retail sales even though traders pay far less than anybody for their jackets.

Over the years our home market has increased and while one Worldwide price might seem unfair, and I can see everyone’s point, there is more to consider.

Cost of supplying a customer overseas is more expensive than within The UK.
While local sales are usually done by phone, overseas sales can take dozens of (time consuming) emails, all needing to be written and replied to and export paperwork is more involved.

Then there is the cost of exchanges, returns. We do not charge return postage for replacements, even if it’s not our fault that a second jacket or alteration is needed.

Also we do not charge for alterations to returned jackets. While the cost of this is very low within The UK it can run well into 3 figures for exchanges, returns from North America or Japan.

Twice during the last twenty years when the dollar was low against the pound we gave free shipping to North America (That was several years in total) and we also put hundreds of free Lochcarron scarves in with jackets going overseas.

Not wishing to upset anyone, but the average size tends to be 2 or 3 sizes larger for the USA than any other country, therefore uses a good few feet more leather, which is another price balancing factor.

OK, I’m sure there will be some who think none of this might seem to justify what is being described as a “surcharge” on export jackets but it all adds up and as all Aero customers know, we go out of our way to give the best possible customer service whilst keeping our prices as low as possible and we will continue to do the best by our customers.

 

[Big J]

This what Holly said on the 07-29-2012, in answer to Suin Bruin's original question ......Nothing has changed since..........

The factory is closed for a 2 week holiday, but I've just noticed this thread and wanted to respond to assure you we're not dodging the issue. I won't be able to respond regularly as I'm on holiday for most of this time too, but here's our response.

We do, and always have, had one price Worldwide. It is standard practice in Europe is to list items for sale at a price that includes VAT, how many European firms deduct any proportion of that price relating to the VAT on exports I couldn’t say.

When we first started Aero over 90% of our production went to trade customers with very little retail other than in The UK.

Once we started to make Horsehide jackets we found strong price resistance in The UK while our overseas market increased. The bottom line was that if we wanted any home market we were going to have to swallow the loss of the VAT content of the price we get in The UK or price ourselves out of The UK market. As these sales were such a small portion of our sales it seemed a price worth paying. Basically we were/are supplementing our UK retail business by taking the loss, rather that overcharging our export customers.

In the same way the volume of our trade sales keep the prices down on all retail sales even though traders pay far less than anybody for their jackets.

Over the years our home market has increased and while one Worldwide price might seem unfair, and I can see everyone’s point, there is more to consider.

Cost of supplying a customer overseas is more expensive than within The UK.
While local sales are usually done by phone, overseas sales can take dozens of (time consuming) emails, all needing to be written and replied to and export paperwork is more involved.

Then there is the cost of exchanges, returns. We do not charge return postage for replacements, even if it’s not our fault that a second jacket or alteration is needed.

Also we do not charge for alterations to returned jackets. While the cost of this is very low within The UK it can run well into 3 figures for exchanges, returns from North America or Japan.

Twice during the last twenty years when the dollar was low against the pound we gave free shipping to North America (That was several years in total) and we also put hundreds of free Lochcarron scarves in with jackets going overseas.

Not wishing to upset anyone, but the average size tends to be 2 or 3 sizes larger for the USA than any other country, therefore uses a good few feet more leather, which is another price balancing factor.

OK, I’m sure there will be some who think none of this might seem to justify what is being described as a “surcharge” on export jackets but it all adds up and as all Aero customers know, we go out of our way to give the best possible customer service whilst keeping our prices as low as possible and we will continue to do the best by our customers.

+1 to that!

 

[ADC]

I don't like paying VAT when I live in Australia and also have to pay our GST and import duties but doing my sums I can get an Aero for similar price or cheaper than than all comparable high end overseas makers for similar jackets. Never had a need to return one but I can see this surcharge is for a guarantee that if things are not NQR they will be fixed with little pain. Not one to take food out of people's mouths.

 

[John Lever]

BigJ please.....it looks like you came over hear just to make trouble. Please tone it down.
thanks

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Thanks again ButteMT61, just skipped over all the hot air as that one simple little line answered my question. That's all I was asking and it is what it is.

Don't need excuses or opinions, just a straight answer to pass on to my customers. Maybe a month ago I sent a guy directly to DD. When he asked about all the jackets globally where do I get one? I said where else? Everything else is just a copy

 

[DiamondDave]

[/quote]Coming from the man in the crusher cap. How many missions did you fly? Oh...it's just for you ego![/quote]

A cap which I made. I'm not sure how many missions JC flew in the Army, as well as the Navy, by the way. Nice attempt at a personal attack though. Keep trying, you'll get the hang of it.

DD

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Coming from the man in the crusher cap. How many missions did you fly? Oh...it's just for you ego![/quote]

A cap which I made. I'm not sure how many missions JC flew in the Army, as well as the Navy, by the way. Nice attempt at a personal attack though. Keep trying, you'll get the hang of it.

DD[/quote]

Looks to me that you contribute quite a bit to this hobby and the American dream as it is, regardless of military service. The only flying I ever did was to and from the base where I walked around Buffs toting an M16 but serve my country every day to this day honoring the AAF Squadrons of WW2. Let this guy roll off your back Dave with his 4 posts here, like other things, everyone has an opinion.

 

[Big J]

BigJ please.....it looks like you came over hear just to make trouble. Please tone it down.
thanks

John, I'm surprised and to be honest, disappointed, considering what else is going on on this thread. Is VLJ just for vendors to gang up on Ken? Great forum you got going on here.

 

[ausreenactor]

Everything else is just a copy

V505!!! NOBODY has nailed that repro....

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Thumbs up to that Couchy. Back just before JC, I was thinking about exactly that. It was a feeble attempt but I still have the galvanized steel pocket templates somewhere. Had no idea about VLJ at the time either. The idea fizzled out quickly but I always wondered why this hasn't been done somewhere. Also, think I heard of an Aussie A2 being made of kangaroo, toughest leather on earth isn't it?

 

[ausreenactor]

Thumbs up to that Couchy. Back just before JC, I was thinking about exactly that. It was a feeble attempt but I still have the galvanized steel pocket templates somewhere. Had no idea about VLJ at the time either. The idea fizzled out quickly but I always wondered why this hasn't been done somewhere. Also, think I heard of an Aussie A2 being made of kangaroo, toughest leather on earth isn't it?

Not sure about the toughest. Possibly the 'fastest' though. I know that if you don't cook Kangaroo right it is damn 'tough'?

 

[a2jacketpatches]

BigJ please.....it looks like you came over hear just to make trouble. Please tone it down.
thanks

John, I'm surprised and to be honest, disappointed, considering what else is going on on this thread. Is VLJ just for vendors to gang up on Ken? Great forum you got going on here.

Come on over and participate for more than 5 posts, rarely will you see anything about Aero.

 

[Big J]

BigJ please.....it looks like you came over hear just to make trouble. Please tone it down.
thanks

John, I'm surprised and to be honest, disappointed, considering what else is going on on this thread. Is VLJ just for vendors to gang up on Ken? Great forum you got going on here.

Come on over and participate for more than 5 posts, rarely will you see anything about Aero.

No thanks. Enjoy yourselves.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

We do, and no, thank you and goodbye.