ELC IRVINS

[John Lever]

I wear merino t-shirts jogging because of it's excellent wicking properties and the fact it doesn't get clammy with sweat. But, is it hard enough wearing to make a durable jacket ? Merino wool is soft with thin fibre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merino

It would take a lifetime to experiment with this lot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sheep_breeds
but would other traditional upland breeds be better ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Mountain_sheep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_B ... 28sheep%29

A good proportion of the surviving originals must be made from Scottish Blackface sheep.

I asked Gary Eastman about a group order for some merino irvin's.
This is his reply -

Dear John,

No I'm afraid not. Changing skin types would require an immense amount of of R & D, and in any case we have already been down the Merino route years ago - lovely wool, very very weak skin - this is natural characteristic of Merino and is why it is only really used for yarn. If they want jackets that fall apart then Merino is the way to go

Best regards,
Gary

I have a 20 year old RMNZ B-3 made from merino ss, it's still going strong and looks amazing.

 

[deeb7]

Dear John,

..... lovely wool, very very weak skin - this is natural characteristic of Merino and is why it is only really used for yarn. If they want jackets that fall apart then Merino is the way to go

John, I guess you need the strongest skins possible, to best withstand the effects of artificially ageing the finished garment. :?

 

[Cliff]

Dear John,

..... lovely wool, very very weak skin - this is natural characteristic of Merino and is why it is only really used for yarn. If they want jackets that fall apart then Merino is the way to go

John, I guess you need the strongest skins possible, to best withstand the effects of artificially ageing the finished garment. :?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

now thats funny !!!

 

[Roughwear]

So does this mean John is no longer after an early Irvin made from this slightly fragile fleece? Perhaps there are so few of them around because they have not stood the test of time! Give me a robust original Irvin anyday.

 

[John Lever]

So does this mean John is no longer after an early Irvin made from this slightly fragile fleece? Perhaps there are so few of them around because they have not stood the test of time! Give me a robust original Irvin anyday.

I think in the early days, they did not make very many jackets and so there are not many about. The jacket I want is 20 years old plus, any jacket of that age worn regularly will show wear.
I don't buy the fragile leather issue, I think it's incorrect as I have a very old strong B-3 made from Merino skin. It's as tough as old boots.
I get the point about a robust original, but 70 years of sweat and muck ?
No thanks...

 

[rich]

I think in the early days, they did not make very many jackets and so there are not many about. The jacket I want is 20 years old plus, any jacket of that age worn regularly will show wear.
I don't buy the fragile leather issue, I think it's incorrect as I have a very old strong B-3 made from Merino skin. It's as tough as old boots.
I get the point about a robust original, but 70 years of sweat and muck ?
No thanks...

Is it unreasonable to suggest that if Gary has been making these jackets for 20+ years, he has the experience to know what he's talking about? I don't doubt what you say about your McCoy's jacket, but I've also seen the torn Marino shown here recently.

Because a jacket is 70 years old, it doesn't equate that it's been wore continuously for 70 years does it? I don't think it smells much differently to any other sheepskin I've had.

 

[John Lever]

The Few AKA RMNZ still use merino sheepskins. Having had long discussions with the tannery that supply them, I know that the material costs are more than double that of alternatives at over £6 per. sq. ft.
I doubt that the Japanese would tolerate jackets that tear.

Shilo's jacket had obviously been stored on a hanger, not recommended for any sheepskin jacket.

 

[Roughwear]

So does this mean John is no longer after an early Irvin made from this slightly fragile fleece? Perhaps there are so few of them around because they have not stood the test of time! Give me a robust original Irvin anyday.

I think in the early days, they did not make very many jackets and so there are not many about. The jacket I want is 20 years old plus, any jacket of that age worn regularly will show wear.
I don't buy the fragile leather issue, I think it's incorrect as I have a very old strong B-3 made from Merino skin. It's as tough as old boots.
I get the point about a robust original, but 70 years of sweat and muck ?
No thanks...

I agree with Rich. Gary does know what he is talking about. I love my 70 year Irvins-all that sweat and muck-I think NOT. :lol:

 

[John Lever]

Andrew,
what about RM and The Few ?

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew,
what about RM and The Few ?

No idea John. That's your field. Gary was presumably only talking about his experience with the fleece.

 

[John Lever]

Andrew,
what about RM and The Few ?

No idea John. That's your field. Gary was presumably only talking about his experience with the fleece.

I think it's the cost, nothing to do with suitability. It's just very expensive as are the best materials in every product.

 

[m444uk]

So, ELC used to use Fenland in Somerset but stopped due to inconsistent batches of standard grade shearling and, at various times, had a top coat that rapidly flaked. Who do they use now ?

McCoy currently use them and select more expensive skins?
In 2002 I remember seeing racks of McCoy B3's in Tokyo and they were much stiffer when new than ELC.
They looked like a product from a totally different tannery.

Who do Aero use? I thought perhaps Fenland or Wingrove and Bacon ?
I'm not keen on some of the fluffy stuff they use.

 

[John Lever]

Aero buy from the US at the moment.
Eastman use Devonia as a tannery but all the finishing is in house.
The Few use Fenland and have dedicated production.
I understand that both Eastman and Aero have used Fenland in the past.

 

[m444uk]

Aero buy from the US at the moment.
Eastman use Devonia as a tannery but all the finishing is in house.
The Few use Fenland and have dedicated production.
I understand that both Eastman and Aero have used Fenland in the past.

I see.

It would be nice if Aero did some homework and sourced in the UK !
I know they used to but had problems with the top coat and thin skins according to Ken Calder.

The .5 cal stuff seemed to me to be of the right weight in hand. A solid feel.
(based on the sole example I saw in American Classics)
The veg retan also nice. Add a bit of sheen in the top coat, drop kick the sandpaper and with careful hide selection
a very good mid-price shearling IMHO.

 

[John Lever]

Aero buy from the US at the moment.
Eastman use Devonia as a tannery but all the finishing is in house.
The Few use Fenland and have dedicated production.
I understand that both Eastman and Aero have used Fenland in the past.

I see.

It would be nice if Aero did some homework and sourced in the UK !
I know they used to but had problems with the top coat and thin skins according to Ken Calder.

The .5 cal stuff seemed to me to be of the right weight in hand. A solid feel.
(based on the sole example I saw in American Classics)
The veg retan also nice. Add a bit of sheen in the top coat, drop kick the sandpaper and with careful hide selection
a very good mid-price shearling IMHO.

I asked Gary if he make me a 50 Cal. B-3 without the sand paper job.
Can you guess the answer ?

 

[m444uk]

The customer is always right ! Stonewashed jeans went out of fashion years ago but things move slowly down in Devon. Give it time.

 

[John Lever]

They are selling like hot cakes to the trendy folk of Covent Garden. I mentioned that the forum folk prefer the older un- distressed jackets and all I heard was silence.

 

[rich]

They are selling like hot cakes to the trendy folk of Covent Garden. I mentioned that the forum folk prefer the older un- distressed jackets and all I heard was silence.

Unfortunately for the likes of us John, we will always be outnumbered................... I guess if you want that degree of commitment and exclusivity, you need to persuade John Chapman to go sheepskin.......
I think Gary's pleasing most of the people most of the time, probably not a bad place to be.

 

[Hawkeye]

Seems a new 1942 jacket IS in the works. Rob Brace emailed me back saying that the new 1942 pattern will be made using new sheepskin, and that only enough of the old stock was left for one more jacket ( which I assume will be mine). He also said the final specification for the new jacket is not done yet he no more specifics can be said.

 

[deeb7]

John Lever's thinking of installing Skype .... just to watch their noses grow longer.