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Eastman BS, Horse-pucky, and a Hornswaggle
- Thread starter ZuZu
- Start date
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
At least one of the pocket flaps is blobular (like a messy 27752) and not at all like the very well sewn pockets on a 16159. The pocket flaps on the 16159 are different from other RWs in that the seam allowance is much smaller, the flaps may be a bit longer and often pointier than other contacts.
You can see even in this blurry photo the seam allowance around the edge of flap.
You can see even in this blurry photo the seam allowance around the edge of flap.
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ZuZu
Well-Known Member
This is a bit like Stuart Clurman's Dubow label with "30-415" instead of the actual "30-1415" on the label. I think they probably realised they'd messed up calling the Hilts jacket a 16159 because they HADN"T noticed the very obvious bell puller in photos. So they made something up. I'm not even sure about the air depot changing zippers story. Is that true?
mulceber
Moderator
Yep, agreed with all of the above. I suspect Gary just wanted to be able to claim you can only get the Great Escape jacket from him, since nobody else (except JC) offers the 16159.
As for the Air Depot changing zippers, that does seem to be true…but without stitch holes? Nah. They wouldn’t have been that careful.
As for the Air Depot changing zippers, that does seem to be true…but without stitch holes? Nah. They wouldn’t have been that careful.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
This topic has been the subject of a number of discussions here. A few here, including myself, believe that the jacket that MCQueen wore was a 27752 RW. Others hold to the ELC thought that it was a RW 16159. Along these lines someone here claimed to have learned that the original A2 worn by MCQueen eventually ended up in the collection of a Japanese gentleman living in Japan. Unless the actual jacket surfaces again someday, I think the speculation will continue regarding whether it’s a 27752 or a 16159, without any definitive proof as to what contract the jacket actually was.
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
Yeah- I knew it was an old topic- I couldn't find the threads though. I don't see how the 16159 argument holds up unless through some convoluted circumstances the straight 16159 slider was switched out for some reason by the prop department. There's no photographic evidence of a new zipper put in - no weird sewing lines or anything- and the pocket flaps (which I admit look kind of angular in some shots) are still too narrow horizontally to be a 16159.
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
See how the pocket flap seems a bit short. With all things Rough Wear there is always an exception to every rule and always an example negating another BUT SOMETIMES the pocket flaps on 27752s were a bit shorter than other contracts. Probably because 27752s seem to have been made maybe in a bit more of a hurry. Maybe, perhaps, it's possible... these are the words to use describing Rough Wear characteristics! On this subject I know what I'm talking about.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
I’m not well versed on a lot of this ID stuff but I know that 90% of the time a garment or a signature jacket is used for a movie. They usually have a couple of them on hand in case one gets destroyed during filming . Do you think that there might have been multiple Virgil Hilts jackets used in the film ? I’m asking because there looks to be a difference in the pocket flap size between these two photos .
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
I think these are two different jackets, in addition to different pockets - if you look closely at the characteristic folds of the leather for example on the top of the wind flap, this becomes more than obvious. Several similar jackets are normal for a movie, anything can happen on set and for props they could stock up two or three
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
That left pocket flap... More Star-like, although this jacket is clearly a RW. So, if anything closer to a 16159...
I also think there may have been two jackets, but then again... WW2 jackets of same contract, were often all over the place, very hard to tell from photos.
I have so many pics of originals, and even on the same jacket, the pocket flaps for example can be different.
I'd discount a 23380 only because the pocket flaps on every pic I have are more rounded. Unlike that left pocket on the Hilts jacket. But then again
I do recall talking about this with Gary years ago (early 2000s when I wanted a Hilts model and they only offered a RW 27752. He said likely 27752 - but this was way before the updated jacket)
I also recall conversations of the original finding its way into a Japanese collection and it being a 16159
Likely as simple as someone grabbed an original jacket that fit McQueen and used it as is.
I wish someone would settle this mystery once and for all. It certainly is a goodie.
I also think there may have been two jackets, but then again... WW2 jackets of same contract, were often all over the place, very hard to tell from photos.
I have so many pics of originals, and even on the same jacket, the pocket flaps for example can be different.
I'd discount a 23380 only because the pocket flaps on every pic I have are more rounded. Unlike that left pocket on the Hilts jacket. But then again
I do recall talking about this with Gary years ago (early 2000s when I wanted a Hilts model and they only offered a RW 27752. He said likely 27752 - but this was way before the updated jacket)
I also recall conversations of the original finding its way into a Japanese collection and it being a 16159
Likely as simple as someone grabbed an original jacket that fit McQueen and used it as is.
I wish someone would settle this mystery once and for all. It certainly is a goodie.
blackrat2
Well-Known Member
Ok so I remember a thread about the Great Escape jacket and I found it but don’t know how to attach the link
I take no credit for original thread and if someone attaches it I thank the owner of the original post
Thread is in Repro’s, posted under GW 18091 by I think Heissenberg…page two of that thread is probably the bit to read …posted April 2020
I take no credit for original thread and if someone attaches it I thank the owner of the original post
Thread is in Repro’s, posted under GW 18091 by I think Heissenberg…page two of that thread is probably the bit to read …posted April 2020
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
too bad that there are no pix of the stopper box [at least to my knowledge]. the the 16159 had a '39 [40] sun rise box, and the 27752 used the '41 diagonal banner box. in the past. I have handled many a-2s that were obviously reworked during war time. most sent to depots, where often as not the rework was done kinda slap dash. however, I strongly believe that a-2s were sent back to the original makers factory, and those were done to a very high standard. reworking was most often recoloring the shell in a seal color [though early factory redos can be found in light russet]. liners were replaced, as were knit elements, and zippers. one of the oddest zipper replacements that I came across is an aero that the zipper was factory replaced with an uncommon kwik zipper. the replacement was nearly flawless, except that the original stitch line was missed a little on the inside liner. agreed with above, in that film shoots will have back up costumes for their lead actors. I have always thought the the hilts jacket was a rw 27752. my thought on this is not due to diligence, but gut feeling.
