1937 Contract HLB, Type A-2

[DiamondDave]

Apparently now in the hands of the master @ Good Wear

http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/HLB_A2_Original/

Should be interesting to see a proper reproduction of this jacket... especially since they are rare as rocking horse shit these days.

 

[foster]

Fascinating find! I find it interesting how crudely the pockets were done, particularly with regard to the snap placement.
Is that ATC rank painted on the epaulettes?

 

[ButteMT61]

Fascinating find! I find it interesting how crudely the pockets were done, particularly with regard to the snap placement.
Is that ATC rank painted on the epaulettes?

Touché. That may have been the piece that inspired the new series. It will be interesting though to see if buyers of high-end repops are willing to accept such things. I like it, others may not, but I think it's a neat idea.
Great find. Never heard of that one before...

 

[SuinBruin]

Another contract with beveled pocket corners, I like it. The lining is funky -- rayon like the Navy jackets?

 

[CBI]

Very cool, can't wait to see what John does with the repro!

 

[fishmeok]

Wow....

Notice the additional strips of leather either side of the zipper, sewn on collar hooks, and original dull russet color under the collar.

Cheers
Mark

 

[foster]

It will be interesting though to see if buyers of high-end repops are willing to accept such things. I like it, others may not, but I think it's a neat idea.

I like it too. I would accept it in a repro. But I'm eccentric and quirky, definitely not 'normal'. But then again, I hear that 'normal people' are a myth - the more anyone gets to know another person, the less 'normal' that person turns out to be. :ugeek:

 

[ButteMT61]

The irony - at least for me is that if I saw other vendors offering this, I'd likely roll my eyes. I won't pretend otherwise. But given my own GW jackets, JC's reputation and knowledge, I figure it's going to be well done. I think many of us are old enough to have lived through the 80's and "pre-distressed" jackets, denim, etc. and it always has me skeptical as it's rarely well done.
In this case, when I'm flush, I'm going to pull the trigger. Or maybe he'll offer that up on the civi jackets too and I'll get that russet Ventura as a sister to the Shinki seal I have now.

 

[Silver Surfer]

since elc came out with their version of the hlb, ive been bugging gary to make the jacket in light russet hh as they originally were. i know of at least three guys that would pull the trigger on one if they were in light russet hh.

 

[Roughwear]

I have been looking for a russet example as well Vic. John's example will make a fantastic GW repro. I am intrigued by the zip. I can see the M-39 Talon is a replacement or was removed when the jacket was perhaps relined and know that Gary's HLB has a No. 8 Kwik zip with rivets on the leather tabs. There is no trace of rivets being used on this jacket so I'm wondering whether this jacket was made a little later than 1937, perhaps 1939, when non riveted zips were first used on A2s.

 

[foster]

The zipper has me curious as well.

I wonder if this may be a private purchase jacket, but made by HLB sometime later (in or after 1939, as Andrew mentioned)?

Even though HLB only had one small contract, they would have retained their patterns and could have (in theory) made jackets for PX sale, possibly at a greater profit margin. It would explain the absence of the riveted zipper and may also explain the rayon / silk lining. Looking at the images, I cannot say for certain but it doesn't look like it was re-lined. I would expect a re-lining to have left the collar snaps as is, and installed a new lining over top of them to conceal them. This one has the dome caps on the inside through the lining, which would mean the entire collar snap would have had to be replaced if this jacket was relined. I don't see that as being expedient, or necessary for a relining job.

In the "Art of the Flight Jacket" book it shows a few other A2 jackets which it lists as being private purchase ones, and two of them have similar features (pockets, especially). The reinforced collar also makes me wonder about this possibility. And if that is ATC rank, it may be more plausible that the jacket was purchased, as opposed to issued? In the early days of the ATC I think it more likely that the pilots acquire their own flight gear, instead of drawing on the USAAC supplies.

Seems unexpected to have a range of varieties within such a small contract, but I am by no means as educated in the realm of A2 jackets as others here. I've presented a lot of speculation in this post, and I acknowledge that fact.

 

[Silver Surfer]

whats more, i remember seeing pix of a hlb a-2 with the even earlier kwik zipper. this is the one with the large curved puller, but the stopper and run seem to be the same as the #8. as a guess, i would venture that although a limited contract, hlb used what they had at hand in the way of zippers. perhaps the first few used the early type, then in production they went with the #8, and subsequent jacs had the talons installed. screwy? yeah, but i have seen lotsa oddities with original a-2s, especially with the early ones. anyhoo, i am sending an early [1932 version] near dead stock kwik zipper to john, so that he has one in hand should he decide to have them replicated. frankly, i do not know of a rarer zipper, or anyone who has one available, so reproducing them is a challenge.

 

[foster]

One other detail about zippers, and I humbly ask to be corrected if I am mistaken, but the early zippers had the rivet for reinforcement, followed by the diagonal stitch in place of the rivet. Some contracts from 1942(?) onward had neither rivet nor diagonal stitch.

The absence of the diagonal stitch on this is another curiosity.

 

[ButteMT61]

Has anyone ever come across examples of test or preproduction jackets? How about companies that did not get contracts but made samples? Would those be considered a great find (if they exist) or something that's just a curiosity? Interesting thread!

 

[buzzthetower]

Gents,

I think this jacket was made post-contract, for the civilian market. I do think that it was done with the same patterns, and in the same manner as the contract jackets were built. The zipper stopper has H1 impressed on it, which seems to imply that the zipper was made in August of 1941, so my jacket is most likely not from 1937, unless both the lining and zipper were replaced.

HLB made jackets of this same style for the civilian market, and by WWII, they were using the brand "Lawton Sports Apparel". But, in the label, you can see HLB Corp. also. Here are two similar jackets that have Lawton labels, and the same basic jacket structure, but no collar stand and a snap at the top of the wind flap, not a clip:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/182796-wwii-civilian-a-2-381st-bomb-group/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201081753144

Both examples appear to have no leather along the zipper lining joint, which is interesting. The leather is different, and the one on eBay has USN style knits.

Here's a huge photo of Ross Greening wearing his jacket, which is in the Dayton USAF museum. He's the tallest fellow:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060217-F-1234P-007.jpg

And after the raid:

Note that his jacket is pretty small, but it's also very tight over the waistband, and the collar hole is pretty big. I don't know what size his jacket is, but I think he could have used one or two sizes larger.

These HLB jackets sure are interesting! Considering how many sheepskin jackets they made during the war, I'm a bit surprised that they weren't making A-2 in that period as well.

I believe that the contract jackets do not have the leather along the zipper in the lining, but they did have the throat clip attached in line with the zipper teeth, not out on the corner of the wind flap.

Thanks,
John

 

[foster]

I have seen a sparse few test jackets, they were marked with "Pattern" added on the label and the ones I have seen were all M-1943 field jackets.

 

[bseal]

JC, two questions....

Will you perform a full vivisection on your newest acquisition in order to clone it? And, will it hurt?



- Animal rights (what rights?) activist

 

[ButteMT61]

JC, two questions....

Will you perform a full vivisection on your newest acquisition in order to clone it? And, will it hurt?

- Animal rights (what rights?) activist

It would hurt me

Thanks for the info JC and others. Very cool thread, and I look forward to the end results!

 

[buzzthetower]

For this jacket, I have a careful method of copying each panel, but I wouldn't take it apart. The only jackets I take apart are those that are so far gone, they cannot be fixed to wear, or even display. They have to be pretty rotten ()and there are rotten jackets!. I have a Monarch M-422 hat has been re-built at some point, and the leather literally feels like stretchy rubber - it's beyond repair or wearing of any kind.

This HLB jacket is quite solid, and only the cuffs would really need to be replaced. One could replace the liner, but that would be a lot of work.

Thanks!
J

 

[Anonymous]

Looks nice. Are the sleeves slim, or they appear this way because the jac is small size?