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The Mighty A-2 Discussion Thread

33-1729

Well-Known Member
Now that the A-2 thread is being posted, I thought it would be good to give a quick update for the academic types on what we’ve gained over the past ten years or so. With the declassification of the A-2 spec documents, tracking down the V505 paperwork, and other tangible evidence here's a top 10-ish list of what we've learned since the books by Sweeting, Mituhiro, Nelson, et al.

1) A-1 Drawing Number is AN-6501, not 074737 as erroneously listed on the Type Designation Sheet (TDS). As the TDS came out long after all A-1 jackets had been produced every A-1 with the 074737 Drawing Number on the label is an undisputable reproduction

2) A-1 "cape" sheepskin – is a light weight (small "c") sheepskin and not a boutique leather; absolutely not the original goat Capeskin from the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa

3) A-2 leather – We didn’t find any conspiracy, with the first possible contract using cowhide found after cowhide was approved for use 17-Jul-40 (Aero W535-AC-16160) and the first possible contract using goatskin found after goatskin was approved for use 10-Mar-41 (Rough Wear W535-AC-18091). Confusion seemed to stem from a couple items: (1) Mr Eastman’s “inconclusive” DNA test on a Werber 39-2951P miss-interpreted as “positive” – it is NOT - and (2) we learned “a cowhide tannage was developed which was intended to give cowhide the same characteristics as horsehide”, so it's no wonder they’re so difficult to tell apart (check out Poughkeepsie W535-AC-28560 where Messrs. Chapman and Eastman disagree - imagine the problem for mere mortals)

4) A-2 lining – It was cotton, and was only cotton. Even though an as-made original jacket has never been found silk lined and the cost of a silk lining at the time would have cost more than making the entire jacket the idea they originally used silk would never seem to die until we got concrete proof

5) A-2 Contracts Discovered – The first A-2 contract (!), P Goldsmith Son’s 31-1897, and Werber’s first, previously unknown 32-6225, contract paperwork were found in the declassified A-2 spec. documents. And the (now) second A-2 contract, the SAT 32-485, consisted of 1,666 jackets (previously unknown production quantity)

6) A-2 Button-flapped Pockets - The declassified A-2 spec. documents showed the first three (3) jacket contracts (above), using the original 9-May-31 spec., all had button-flapped pockets (Werber's 33-1729 was the first with snap pockets using the newly Cleared 18-Aug-32 spec.)

7) A-2 “Aero” – What we’ve been calling “Aero” over the years is actually three (3) different companies, well 1+(1+1=1) companies. Brooklyn’s Aero Clothing & Tanning Co. (ACT) produced only one contract, then Beacon’s Aero Leather Clothing Clothing Co., Inc. (with a collar stand) and the three-way partnership of Aero Leather Clothing Co. (without a collar stand, nor “Inc. in the name) beginning with W535-AC-21996. Other than the collar stand the last two in Beacon, NY are pretty much the same

8) A-2 “Werber” – What we’ve been calling “Werber” over the years is two (2) different companies, consisting of Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY and Werber Sportswear Co. of Newburgh, NY. To be fair, the same person ran both with arson, creative accounting, and a few other oddities resulting in the change. In the beginning, Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY had a near lock on A-2 contracts with five in a row (no one else came close)

9) A-2 Rough Wear 42-1671P found! – Mr Eastman discovered the paperwork but only a few years ago was a survivor located, by John Chapman no less. Maybe three hundred (300) made? A needle-in-the-haystack find.

10) A-2 “V505” – We’ve been able to track down the paperwork proving an Australian A-2 was made in cowhide for the U.S.A. Air Corps and used by some members of the 5th Air Force (3,132 produced). The label was coded "V505" because of Australia's proximity to the war and the need to shelter business identities from possible attack

11) A-2 W33-038 Contracts - We found paperwork for ac-1755 and ac-1756 showing 35,000 and 25,000 jackets, respectively, were produced (previously unknown)

There might be more but we have tangible, concrete, proof for the items above. I'd call the VLJ a success!
 

mulceber

Moderator
Now that the A-2 thread is being posted, I thought it would be good to give a quick update for the academic types on what we’ve gained over the past ten years or so. With the declassification of the A-2 spec documents, tracking down the V505 paperwork, and other tangible evidence here's a top 10-ish list of what we've learned since the books by Sweeting, Mituhiro, Nelson, et al.

1) A-1 Drawing Number is AN-6501, not 074737 as erroneously listed on the Type Designation Sheet (TDS). As the TDS came out long after all A-1 jackets had been produced every A-1 with the 074737 Drawing Number on the label is an undisputable reproduction

2) A-1 "cape" sheepskin – is a light weight (small "c") sheepskin and not a boutique leather; absolutely not the original goat Capeskin from the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa

3) A-2 leather – We didn’t find any conspiracy, with the first possible contract using cowhide found after cowhide was approved for use 17-Jul-40 (Aero W535-AC-16160) and the first possible contract using goatskin found after goatskin was approved for use 10-Mar-41 (Rough Wear W535-AC-18091). Confusion seemed to stem from a couple items: (1) Mr Eastman’s “inconclusive” DNA test on a Werber 39-2951P miss-interpreted as “positive” – it is NOT - and (2) we learned “a cowhide tannage was developed which was intended to give cowhide the same characteristics as horsehide”, so it's no wonder they’re so difficult to tell apart (check out Poughkeepsie W535-AC-28560 where Messrs. Chapman and Eastman disagree - imagine the problem for mere mortals)

4) A-2 lining – It was cotton, and was only cotton. Even though an as-made original jacket has never been found silk lined and the cost of a silk lining at the time would have cost more than making the entire jacket the idea they originally used silk would never seem to die until we got concrete proof

5) A-2 Contracts Discovered – The first A-2 contract (!), P Goldsmith Son’s 31-1897, and Werber’s first, previously unknown 32-6225, contract paperwork were found in the declassified A-2 spec. documents. And the (now) second A-2 contract, the SAT 32-485, consisted of 1,666 jackets (previously unknown production quantity)

6) A-2 Button-flapped Pockets - The declassified A-2 spec. documents showed the first three (3) jacket contracts (above), using the original 9-May-31 spec., all had button-flapped pockets (Werber's 33-1729 was the first with snap pockets using the newly Cleared 18-Aug-32 spec.)

7) A-2 “Aero” – What we’ve been calling “Aero” over the years is actually three (3) different companies, well 1+(1+1=1) companies. Brooklyn’s Aero Clothing & Tanning Co. (ACT) produced only one contract, then Beacon’s Aero Leather Clothing Clothing Co., Inc. (with a collar stand) and the three-way partnership of Aero Leather Clothing Co. (without a collar stand, nor “Inc. in the name) beginning with W535-AC-21996. Other than the collar stand the last two in Beacon, NY are pretty much the same

8) A-2 “Werber” – What we’ve been calling “Werber” over the years is two (2) different companies, consisting of Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY and Werber Sportswear Co. of Newburgh, NY. To be fair, the same person ran both with arson, creative accounting, and a few other oddities resulting in the change. In the beginning, Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY had a near lock on A-2 contracts with five in a row (no one else came close)

9) A-2 Rough Wear 42-1671P found! – Mr Eastman discovered the paperwork but only a few years ago was a survivor located, by John Chapman no less. Maybe three hundred (300) made? A needle-in-the-haystack find.

10) A-2 “V505” – We’ve been able to track down the paperwork proving an Australian A-2 was made in cowhide for the U.S.A. Air Corps and used by some members of the 5th Air Force (3,132 produced). The label was coded "V505" because of Australia's proximity to the war and the need to shelter business identities from possible attack

11) A-2 W33-038 Contracts - We found paperwork for ac-1755 and ac-1756 showing 35,000 and 25,000 jackets, respectively, were produced (previously unknown)

There might be more but we have tangible, concrete, proof for the items above. I'd call the VLJ a success!
If a VLJ member has already read Eastman's A-2 guide and doesn't feel like wading through a 5+ page thread, this pretty much sums up the changes!
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Now that the A-2 thread is being posted, I thought it would be good to give a quick update for the academic types on what we’ve gained over the past ten years or so. With the declassification of the A-2 spec documents, tracking down the V505 paperwork, and other tangible evidence here's a top 10-ish list of what we've learned since the books by Sweeting, Mituhiro, Nelson, et al.

1) A-1 Drawing Number is AN-6501, not 074737 as erroneously listed on the Type Designation Sheet (TDS). As the TDS came out long after all A-1 jackets had been produced every A-1 with the 074737 Drawing Number on the label is an undisputable reproduction

2) A-1 "cape" sheepskin – is a light weight (small "c") sheepskin and not a boutique leather; absolutely not the original goat Capeskin from the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa

3) A-2 leather – We didn’t find any conspiracy, with the first possible contract using cowhide found after cowhide was approved for use 17-Jul-40 (Aero W535-AC-16160) and the first possible contract using goatskin found after goatskin was approved for use 10-Mar-41 (Rough Wear W535-AC-18091). Confusion seemed to stem from a couple items: (1) Mr Eastman’s “inconclusive” DNA test on a Werber 39-2951P miss-interpreted as “positive” – it is NOT - and (2) we learned “a cowhide tannage was developed which was intended to give cowhide the same characteristics as horsehide”, so it's no wonder they’re so difficult to tell apart (check out Poughkeepsie W535-AC-28560 where Messrs. Chapman and Eastman disagree - imagine the problem for mere mortals)

4) A-2 lining – It was cotton, and was only cotton. Even though an as-made original jacket has never been found silk lined and the cost of a silk lining at the time would have cost more than making the entire jacket the idea they originally used silk would never seem to die until we got concrete proof

5) A-2 Contracts Discovered – The first A-2 contract (!), P Goldsmith Son’s 31-1897, and Werber’s first, previously unknown 32-6225, contract paperwork were found in the declassified A-2 spec. documents. And the (now) second A-2 contract, the SAT 32-485, consisted of 1,666 jackets (previously unknown production quantity)

6) A-2 Button-flapped Pockets - The declassified A-2 spec. documents showed the first three (3) jacket contracts (above), using the original 9-May-31 spec., all had button-flapped pockets (Werber's 33-1729 was the first with snap pockets using the newly Cleared 18-Aug-32 spec.)

7) A-2 “Aero” – What we’ve been calling “Aero” over the years is actually three (3) different companies, well 1+(1+1=1) companies. Brooklyn’s Aero Clothing & Tanning Co. (ACT) produced only one contract, then Beacon’s Aero Leather Clothing Clothing Co., Inc. (with a collar stand) and the three-way partnership of Aero Leather Clothing Co. (without a collar stand, nor “Inc. in the name) beginning with W535-AC-21996. Other than the collar stand the last two in Beacon, NY are pretty much the same

8) A-2 “Werber” – What we’ve been calling “Werber” over the years is two (2) different companies, consisting of Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY and Werber Sportswear Co. of Newburgh, NY. To be fair, the same person ran both with arson, creative accounting, and a few other oddities resulting in the change. In the beginning, Werber Leather Coat Company of Beacon, NY had a near lock on A-2 contracts with five in a row (no one else came close)

9) A-2 Rough Wear 42-1671P found! – Mr Eastman discovered the paperwork but only a few years ago was a survivor located, by John Chapman no less. Maybe three hundred (300) made? A needle-in-the-haystack find.

10) A-2 “V505” – We’ve been able to track down the paperwork proving an Australian A-2 was made in cowhide for the U.S.A. Air Corps and used by some members of the 5th Air Force (3,132 produced). The label was coded "V505" because of Australia's proximity to the war and the need to shelter business identities from possible attack

11) A-2 W33-038 Contracts - We found paperwork for ac-1755 and ac-1756 showing 35,000 and 25,000 jackets, respectively, were produced (previously unknown)

There might be more but we have tangible, concrete, proof for the items above. I'd call the VLJ a success!
Outstanding work guys !
Congrats to all involved.
 

mulceber

Moderator
Incredible resource guys, thanks so much for the time & effort.
Would be great to print this out in a book form ;)

I do like the idea of adding pics of well-known pilots wearing a specific contract for context.
Yeager - Monarch
Stewart - RW 1401
Johnson - Aero
etc

Perhaps we could start a thread exploring this, in an effort to help gather pics you can use, and confirm who wore what...
Could also be an addendum to the thread. A photo gallery if you will.
Just remembered that Clark Gable wore a Spiewak. I've added it to that contract's entry in the thread.
 

blackrat2

Well-Known Member
Fantastic, just fantastic
Once posted up in full would be nice if some of the jacket owners could tell us anymore about there jackets, what hides, any history associated to the jscket
I do appreciate some have been on the site before but would be nice to have them in one place if that works for the contributors
 

mulceber

Moderator
And with those last few posts, the guide is complete!

...ok, not actually complete. There will always be corrections to make, new discoveries coming out, new originals discovered that might warrant inclusion among the photos. And at some point JC is going to read through it, and I'm sure he'll have ideas to improve it. But the first draft is done and ready for everyone's perusal!
 

Jennison

Well-Known Member
I've never had the luxury of owning or even perusing Eastman's guide. I can't express how much I appreciate the effort that went into this project. From now on, any newbie who joins VLJ has the capability of losing that status very quickly and without asking a single question!

Outstanding is an understatement!
 
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