The Irvin/Wareing Flight Jacket 80 years later

[busdrivermike]

Awesome article, I gotta be honest the whole broken grain thing is in my opinion just fugly
I personally would prefer just the tanning process as on the original

 

[s4rmark]

Excellent thread, I really enjoyed reading that. I agree with mulciber in that the hide and also the fleece is more akin to the Aero Irvin.

 

[John Lever]

The jacket was made for an open cockpit and you put the collar up and then pulled the elastic strap over your head and tightened it around your forehead to keep the collar up and in place . So I’ve been told .

I use it....the collar stays up while you fasten the leather closure.
The B2 has the same strap.
I know I keep harping on about this but Eastman lost the plot when they went down the broken grain path. The process whatever it is baking or chemical treatment was done by Avirex decades ago. It makes the hide too tough and degrades the fleece by making It dull and fuzzy. This alters the way it reflects light.

 

[Micawber]

The broken grain does not accept leather treatment/ balm like an original, it barely soaks in. Not an impervious lacquer like B-3-s etc but not far off. I suspect its a part chemical treatment that leaves a certain wear resistance.

My understanding is that they no longer use the big plastic bit on the ends of the zip.

As for the elastic strap to the rear underside if the collar - it does help to keep it both up and down. Believe me wartime conditions meant they would have dropped it if the A M thought they could save in materials and production time. By the way I am looking for one for the early Eastman I just recieved....

Burt is quite correct though, the design is pre war, back in the days prior to your Hurricanes and Spitfires- think more Hawker Harts and Hinds of the earl to mid 30's. Besides the RAF, Coastal Command etc were still flying outdated aircraft as well as front line fighters and bombers throughout. Think Fairy Swordfish etc. Also think how often you see photos of front line fighters with canopies slid back - SOP during certain stages if flight.

Edited as this new phone thinks it knows what words to use better than me. Bloody predictive text- be gone!

 

[John Lever]

Steve,
You like ?

 

[Micawber]

Steve,
You like ?

I have not had hands on yet John but am donning gloves to give it a wipe down with disinfectant outside this afternoon.

Pics to follow....

 

[B-Man2]

Hey guys
I just took some better quality photographs of my original Wareings / Irvin jacket to make a point as to the accuracy of the older ELC repros compared to the present day ones . Let me first apologize to Grant for hijacking his photo of him and his older ELC Irvin to use as a great example of how close his jacket is to an original Irvin . His older Irvin ELC photographed next to the original is by far a better example as to how an authentic looking repro of an original should look . Hopefully Grant is cool with my taking the liberty of using his photograph .

The first thing you notice is the near exact color matches of the hide and fleece of Grants older ELC jacket compared to the original.
You’ll also notice the distinct similarities of the two hides . Noticeably different than this

Well I hope you guys enjoyed the comparison and I welcome your responses and opinions .
Cheers.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

A really interesting read and great to learn a bit about the comparisons B-Man. Which reminds me I must get some time into my Aero repro as the weather is expected to get colder later this week.

 

[B-Man2]

A really interesting read and great to learn a bit about the comparisons B-Man. Which reminds me I must get some time into my Aero repro as the weather is expected to get colder later this week.

Flash
Please feel free to post your Aero Irvin here as a comparison to those reviewed already.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Happy to do that though I admit I know much less than most round here on the subject of Irvins!

 

[B-Man2]

Happy to do that though I admit I know much less than most round here on the subject of Irvins!

LOl! Brilliant !
You’ll fit right in then!

 

[Chris 55]

Why cant we get a repro zipper to finish off the Irvin jacket .If it is to expensive ,do what the japanese do all the makers club together and split the cost . Its time for us to have DOT or Lightening its not that we are asking to go to the moon ?.

BIP

Hey guys
I just took some better quality photographs of my original Wareings / Irvin jacket to make a point as to the accuracy of the older ELC repros compared to the present day ones . Let me first apologize to Grant for hijacking his photo of him and his older ELC Irvin to use as a great example of how close his jacket is to an original Irvin . His older Irvin ELC photographed next to the original is by far a better example as to how an authentic looking repro of an original should look . Hopefully Grant is cool with my taking the liberty of using his photograph .
View attachment 49684
View attachment 49701
The first thing you notice is the near exact color matches of the hide and fleece of Grants older ELC jacket compared to the original.
You’ll also notice the distinct similarities of the two hides . Noticeably different than this
View attachment 49704
Well I hope you guys enjoyed the comparison and I welcome your responses and opinions .
Cheers.

Just out of interest this is part of a waist cuff of a mid war Irvin that hasn't seen the light of day for 80 year's.
The colour is the same as the 42 pattern ELC I have.

 

[B-Man2]

Owww.. dreaded thumbnails ....

 

[Chris 55]

Owww.. dreaded thumbnails ....
[/QUO


Point taken

 

[London Cabbie]

Brilliant, well done.

 

[B-Man2]

Thank you Chris

 

[Micawber]

Much better, thank you.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

As Burt invited me to post some photo's of my Aero Irvin repro for comparison I'll do that now. Clearly it's a new jacket so it hasn't got the wear (yet) and I'm no expert but I'll offer a few thoughts as we go. So, this is an Aero Late War RAF repro size 42.

The fleece is to my eye a light tan colour which makes it comparable to Burts ELC 1940 BoB Irvin repro. The only comparison I've got for density is my Polden Sheepskins RAF repro which is much denser than this Aero. By eye the density of my Aero repro looks closer to the Wareings jacket and I think Smithy had told me originals were not as dense as you might expect. The Aero repro label looks to be "In the Air Ministry style". The Collar shape looks to me to be less pronounced than Burts ELC repro and the Wareings original.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I guess I've got to talk about the main zip haven't I? If I must ... Burt pointed out the plastic tape strengthener on which the insertion pin for the main zip sits on his ELC repro (I've googled these terms so forgive me if they're wrong it's not my area of expertise!). I've read quite a few posts about "Zip-gate" because I wasn't clear what the true issue was. Micawber helpfully posted a photo in this thread https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/nice-elc-irvin-in-44”-on-ebay.25647/page-2

The Aero repro has a brass effect AM zipper repro which is quite large but that's is handy when you're wearing gloves. I believe that may be a "Marmite" point for some but Aero do an alternative. The Aero has what looks like a tape strengthener that the insertion pin sits on similar to Burts ELC but neither is the same as the plastic tab Steve posted. I live in the real world and whether it's right wrong or otherwise if it strengthens the zipper this detail is fine by me. Burts Wareings original has stitching to attach / anchor the insertion pin and retainer box adjacent to the metal stud. The Aero doesn't (nor does his ELC).

The Aero belt is pretty robust though probably not as closely stitched as the Wareings. The belt loops also look to be a bit more substantial than Burts ELC. I think I'll leave it there and see how close I am when the fight breaks out.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I'm running out of things to say about zips but there's one on each arm on an Irvin isn't there? So, once again Aero's AM zipper repro provides a good glove hold here. I'll also post a comparison with the arm/torso junction and the underarm reinforcement area. The details seem broadly comparable to me bearing in mind my Aero is the youngest here and hasn't had much wear at all. The collar strap also seems comparable but as a Late War model the Aero does not include an elastic strap for open cockpit flying.

I should say something about the hide. The Aero repro was supple and comfortable straight out of the box. It may not have an aged look but it is very comfortable to wear. I hope that's a helpful comparison for reference.