Star Sportswear A-2 - found at the Goodwill outlet bins

[Centaurus3200]

thank you for the information.

as of now, the jacket is a bit dusty, has an odor of moth balls. and it just seems dry. like very little sheen to it. i just don't want to wear it and risk it cracking or being compromised at the seams.

is Bick 4 a flat out horrible idea? even a little?

what do you use to just clean it? just straight water and a clean cloth? i assume no soap or anything.

OR, just a dry cloth to brush away the dust? no water at all?

i mean, i'm not super psycho with my other jackets. i bick 4 the crap out of them when i first get them, then let 'em ride from there on out. BUT they are all black.

my 3 other jackets (all thrift finds):
Johnson Leathers M-Jean jacket. it's Bison, i think.
late 70's Golden Bear A2 (looks more like the Fonz's jacket)- goat skin
early 80s Custom locally made jacket-buffalo and Indian nickel buttons-seems like horse hide. made for a long defunct Sand Francisco leather bar called The Ambush. Despite it's somewhat promiscuous lineage, it's just a cool looking flannel lined A2-ish type jacket.

Centaurus,
you are very lucky to have found a jacket of which the leather seems to be in excellent condition.
I would not say it is stiff, I 'd say you are probably used to lambskin jackets. Horsehide is more stiff by nature. Don't jump to conclusions that it is stiff. Compare your leather with those from makers such as GW and ELC and you see that yours is less stiff than theirs.

I am totally against using renapur or vaseline on this gem. It is clear from the photos that it doesn't need any of that. Don't forget that vaseline has been accused for corroding the cotton threads.

I would also like to add that we witness in the OP the original seal color of the original Star A-2 jackets and that the dark seal pushed by some vendors (and almost established) is only a myth.

For comparison here's Eastman's dark seal

You can easily see that the color has nothing to do with that of the original.

 

[Smithy]

You're what our British friends call a "jammy git" ;-)

That is truly amazing, like those guys who find a Bugatti stuffed away in a barn someplace.

I've never used Renapur but everyone who has seems to love it. I've used RM Williams Saddle and Leather Dressing for eons now and it's great stuff to use if you can get your hands on it. Doesn't go rancid and won't rot stitching. John Chapman, the Jedi Master of A-2 reproduction, apparently uses vaseline and he knows a thing or two about leather.

Oh and BTW if you haven't already, buy a lottery ticket, you're luck is in mate.

 

[Julius]

Centaurus, here is the only tool needed to remove the dust. Use it carefully.

Do you think that this jacket waited at its original condition for 80 years for someone to fuck it (pardon my french) with vaseline?

Sorry the Jedi Master does not impress me.

If you are serious about this, I can give you the contact to a national museum so you can ask them what they use to preserve original A-2 jackets they have on display.

And for God's sake, please do not give this to the cleaners.
The odor can go away if you air it for prolonged period (away from the sun).

If you insist on ruining it with vaseline you will be sorry to find that its original appearance will change after application of vaseline or other product. It will be a pitty.

If you plan on selling it, please let me buy it before you apply any products on it.

 

[Smithy]

If you are serious about this, I can give you the contact to a national museum so you can ask them what they use to preserve original A-2 jackets they have on display.

I do work for an aviation museum. The leather conservation products we use are specifically formulated to be used on leather which is for conserving current condition, to be displayed in light and humidity controlled environments.

These things are of no use to articles that you wish to wear. In all instances things for example like Cellugel are utilised to stop deterioration and for use in a light and moisture controlled environment.

Museums use leather products entirely different from those used for leather which is being used in the big, wide world.

 

[Centaurus3200]

first off, i like the smell of moth balls. LOL!

main question is a little Bick 4 or just wear it? no, i wouldn't use Vaseline.
yes, i would like a definitive on how best to preserve it... AND wear it like 5 some odd times a year.

so, basically, brush it off and wear it. don't worry about it being stiff and dry?

for reference, i just dropped by the Schott NYC store in san Fransisco. they showed me some horse hide jackets. pretty sure my one off Ambush one is horse hide by the feel of it. this A-2 is definitely dry and dull by comparison.

they suggested sending it off to Aero. i'm thinking that's overkill?

there's no rush. for now, it's just chilling in my closet on one of those wooden hangers with the big ass shoulder supports.

 

[Centaurus3200]

oh yeah, Areo likes Leatherique, right? i have a big ass bottle of it. i used it for my 1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20 Valve seats. that shit is GNARLY. super sticky. sure makes leather soft afterwards. BUT, i'm pretty sure that stuff will totally screw up the color of the jacket, so that's a "no go".

 

[Edward]

WOW! I didn't think this was still possible. amazing... however, I think more inspection needs to be done... the AN stamp says P198 ... the same AN stamp number as my ELC Star Sportswear repro. Did ALL Star Sportswear jackets of the era get the same inspector stamp? did the originals all get AN 198 inspection stamp? makes me wonder if this isn't an ELC....
also.. the collar clasps, grommets and snaps and zipper pull don't have any green oxidation corrosion often found on originals. seems way too clean to me to be an original discarded by someone. please prove me wrong.

 

[Micawber]

WOW! I didn't think this was still possible. amazing... however, I think more inspection needs to be done... the AN stamp says P198 ... the same AN stamp number as my ELC Star Sportswear repro. Did ALL Star Sportswear jackets of the era get the same inspector stamp? did the originals all get AN 198 inspection stamp? makes me wonder if this isn't an ELC....
also.. the collar clasps, grommets and snaps and zipper pull don't have any green oxidation corrosion often found on originals. seems way too clean to me to be an original discarded by someone. please prove me wrong.

Agreed.

 

[Edward]

the placement of the AN stamp is ideally more of an original... the residual ink stain from the square part of the rubber mold outside of the circle AN stamp is also more of an authentic tell so that is enough to justify leaning to original vintage perhaps.... still, this jacket is so pristine its almost hard to believe.
The liner has no neck sweat wear... nothing. even my one year old repro has that just from me wearing it. if this is indeed an original the liner has been replaced and quite recently or never worn after restoration... perhaps by ELC or another company?

 

[Smithy]

WOW! I didn't think this was still possible. amazing... however, I think more inspection needs to be done... the AN stamp says P198 ... the same AN stamp number as my ELC Star Sportswear repro. Did ALL Star Sportswear jackets of the era get the same inspector stamp? did the originals all get AN 198 inspection stamp? makes me wonder if this isn't an ELC....
also.. the collar clasps, grommets and snaps and zipper pull don't have any green oxidation corrosion often found on originals. seems way too clean to me to be an original discarded by someone. please prove me wrong.

That's probably a good point Edward.

My expertise isn't USAAC/USAAF stuff at all so I'll leave that for others. In terms of this kind of verdigris on the hardwear that can only come from two things:

1) Age and exposure to a number of normal ambient environmental factors. This is usually borne out in other sections of the artefact and affected by handling and useage.

2) Direct exposure to salt water or a long period in a coastal environment. Usually this kind of discoloration is quite aggressive. It also doesn't stop, once the exposure to salt occurs it with continue its reaction to the metal.

Don't know how much that helps in authenticating the jacket but maybe it helps in some small way.

 

[Centaurus3200]

if anyone is in the SF bay area, ya'll are welcome to see it in person.

obviously, i hope it's real, but hey if it's a repro, i can't complain either.

rookie logic leads me to think it's original... based on nothing other than if someone blew $1,500 or whatever on the jacket within the last 20 years, it might be less likely to end up and the bottom of a bunch of clothing at a goodwill outlet.

if it was "grandpa's old jacket" mothballed for decades, that has more of a chance of being discarded?

perhaps wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Edward]

well, the tag is indeed different.... ELC uses DWG. NO. 301415. with no dash and Cont. No. W535AC-28557

Any other makers of the Star that might make a different contract number tag?

 

[Edward]

okay John Chapman of Goodwear makes the other contract tag....

 

[Edward]

so here we have John Chapmans tag at top and the OP tag at bottom.... some of the font is a bit different on the "original jacket".... discuss.....

 

[Edward]

if anyone is in the SF bay area, ya'll are welcome to see it in person.

obviously, i hope it's real, but hey if it's a repro, i can't complain either.

rookie logic leads me to think it's original... based on nothing other than if someone blew $1,500 or whatever on the jacket within the last 20 years, it might be less likely to end up and the bottom of a bunch of clothing at a goodwill outlet.

if it was "grandpa's old jacket" mothballed for decades, that has more of a chance of being discarded?

perhaps wishful thinking on my part.

well, I am leaning to it being original... but we need to sort it out. I think you scored big time... do you have pictures of any tags sewn into (inside of) the pockets? Under the flaps or inside the pocket itself there should be a size tag. and possibly a maker tag if its a repro.

 

[Centaurus3200]

i looked for that size tag in the pocket. i think it's gone. just tell me what to look for and i'll snap a pic of it. i'll also take a pic of the back of it. forgot to do that.

 

[Edward]

I don’t have a good wear from John Chapman so someone else will have to tell us what John puts in his pockets if anything… I think John’s are more authentic to original A-2 in that regard but this is what Eastman puts in their left pocket :

 

[Smithy]

If it's been falsely aged then whoever did it was seriously skilled.

There's no calcification which has spilled over from the hardwear. If you were trying to age the hardwear using a saline solution the calcification would almost certainly have "bled" onto the surrounding leather marking it.

The more I look at the leather and hardwear the more I think it's original. But we probably need an A-2/USAAF kit fellow to stick his neck out ;-)

 

[Edward]

certainly exciting to see and discuss. my original skepticism is diminishing and I think this is a wonderful find. would like to know more about the liner. for a jacket like this to show up with no wear or staining on the collar is still odd to me. some guys didn't wear their jackets on missions but left them behind and only wore them on off days, in the cold...

 

[Edward]

could it be possible this jacket was never issued? stayed in the states and perhaps a manufacturer employee stole it? LOL! or it was used by a stateside member. I know flight instructors had them but usually patched up.