Show us your redye A2s

[Dany McDonald]

Dany
What size is this one ?

There you go burt.

 

[Dany McDonald]

and my son wore it into a B-17 ball turret a few years back when he could still fit.

That is brilliant! Love the image of your son in the turret. Was it in flight?

Dany

 

[foster]

That is brilliant! Love the image of your son in the turret. Was it in flight?

No, this was just while it was on the ground. We opened the hatch and he climbed in. We had to take the photo from the opened hatch.

Did get a nice reaction out of him for dramatic effect though...

 

[B-Man2]

I know it’s off subject ,
But , I just think to myself, the guys who rode in that ball turret had big balls themselves . 6 to 8 hours in that thing ?
Holy Shit !!

 

[Dany McDonald]

No joke, as ''he had to assume the fetal position within the turret''...

Ball turret - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

D

 

[mulceber]

I know it’s off subject ,
But , I just think to myself, the guys who rode in that ball turret had big balls themselves . 6 to 8 hours in that thing ?
Holy Shit !!

...with the knowledge that if the landing gear somehow failed to work and the plane had to do a belly landing, you were toast.

 

[B-Man2]

...with the knowledge that if the landing gear somehow failed to work and the plane had to do a belly landing, you were toast.

More like jam ….

 

[mulceber]

More like jam ….

No kidding. Absolutely the worst job on a bomber.

 

[foster]

The ball turret gunners were not allowed to be in the turret for takeoff and landing, but sometimes it happened due to mechanical failure of the turret controls and hatch.

I did read one account of a ball turret gunner who wanted to be in the turret during a B-17 landing. He managed to sneak in without the knowledge of the pilots. When the plane landed, the ball turret was VERY close to the runway when the landing gear compressed, and despite the thrill of the moment he NEVER wanted to experience that again!

 

[B-Man2]

I’m guessing he was probably doing about 110mph about 12 inches off the concrete when he landed .

 

[tda003]

Thanks for all the information about re-dyes. Helps me learn more exactly what my jacket went through. Since the jackets can't talk to explain their histories, it's really the only way I have of learning about them and some questions may never be answered. For example, if you look at the "before" pictures of my A-2 (A-2 jackets being new territory for me), you can see that the lining was hand stitched across the bottom by the waistband. Was it during the depot rebuild or a later "homemade" repair. Who made it? What happened in its life? It's like trying to interview an aging vet who just can't remember any more. It's why I have such affection for the veteran flying jackets.

If it weren't for help and advise from the flight jacket community, I wouldn't know anything about this or most of the rest of my veteran jackets and especially about my hard worn A-2. Many thanks

P.S. Did this happen to G-1 jackets also?

 

[Dany McDonald]

Burt, in a conversation with John Chapman about this specific Aero 21996 (the one I posted), I mentioned that I could not find the usual brushmark of a depot re-dye, in the pockets or brush marks of a rushed job. I also noticed that the thread was still in it's original color, not darken from the redye.

This is what John had to say about Aero seal color, as always it's interesting and will add to this thread about understanding the redye concept:

'' If you can believe it, that color format was done by one of the Aero-used tanneries, not by a re-dye. I think most larger contracts were serviced by 3-5 tanneries, and with Aero, there was one that liked to have a shiny reddish russet color with a dark brown applied over it. That's how Aero would have received the leather, and one could only tell the reddish base once the jacket had been worn enough to make the seal color wear. Very interesting, and I've not seen any other tannery at that time do this.''

This would certainly explain why the thread on my Aero is intact but sings of a spray of a seal pigment was done before production. Notice that there are two different thread color use on this one.

Do you also see this on your 21996?

Thank you,

Dany

 

[foster]

My 15142 showed evidence of two different thread colors in its construction. One was brown and the other was OD.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Foster,

It was probably a common practice to use the many bobbins available at your workstation, the color not being that important as the effort was on production within the respect of the gouv specs.

Dany

 

[Dany McDonald]

In my post I also asking if your threads are in their original colors with signs of a redye...?

Thank you,

Dany

 

[B-Man2]

Burt, in a conversation with John Chapman about this specific Aero 21996 (the one I posted), I mentioned that I could not find the usual brushmark of a depot re-dye, in the pockets or brush marks of a rushed job. I also noticed that the thread was still in it's original color, not darken from the redye.

This is what John had to say about Aero seal color, as always it's interesting and will add to this thread about understanding the redye concept:

'' If you can believe it, that color format was done by one of the Aero-used tanneries, not by a re-dye. I think most larger contracts were serviced by 3-5 tanneries, and with Aero, there was one that liked to have a shiny reddish russet color with a dark brown applied over it. That's how Aero would have received the leather, and one could only tell the reddish base once the jacket had been worn enough to make the seal color wear. Very interesting, and I've not seen any other tannery at that time do this.''

This would certainly explain why the thread on my Aero is intact but sings of a spray of a seal pigment was done before production. Notice that there are two different thread color use on this one.


View attachment 68856




Do you also see this on your 21996?

Thank you,

Dany

Dany
These Aero 21996 jackets do make for interesting studies . Like yourself I’ve seen several 21996s that have the Red Russett color bleeding through the redyed top coat . They have a character and color that is exclusive to that contract . Regarding JCs ideas on how these jackets were redyed , it’s an area that he would have a great deal of expertise in, and whenever he shares his viewpoints I enjoy to listening to him and try to take in all that he says or posts . The 21996 that I have looks like someone put a double coat of dye over the jacket . Its heavy and thick and I sincerely regret that I don’t think any of the actual red Russett color will ever make it through the top coat . Regarding the stitching, it’s buried under all of that dark dye and there’s no possibility of determining what color the original thread is , accept by looking at the underlying thread around the zip and lining attachment points . All those areas are matching in color . It’s always good to chat with you and to share info like this. Your jacket looks great .!

 

[mulceber]

Sounds to me, Burt, like your Aero was dyed like Dany's, but then ALSO got a Depot Redye.

 

[Chandler]

Burt, in a conversation with John Chapman about this specific Aero 21996...

I sure hope JC is keeping a good archive of his research -- and hope he plans to collect it for some sort of history book in the future.

 

[mulceber]

Also, the 21996 is not the only contract that had this weird seal-on-russet dye job applied on at the tannery. The 15142-P and 18775-P (Aero's last two contracts) did as well.

 

[Dany McDonald]

If you closely look at the pocket flap you see an artifact of a possible very dark surface color applied over the initial seal spray or something else not understood (by me). I cannot find any brush marks anywhere just those localise very dark spots...

Thank you for sharing guys, it's fun and interesting!

Dany