Schott's A-2 claim - real or just marketing?

[Jake431]

So, it's always bothered me that Schott claims they made A-2's for the AAF during world war two; I've never seen one or heard of one. I don't doubt they made pea coats for the Navy, which they also claim to have done, but A-2's? Does anyone have any first hand experience with a jacket or contract or even a piece of corresponence that corroborates their assertion? This piece in Heddels (who long has done shoddy research on all manner of flight apparel) reminded me of Schott's claim.

Schott NYC - History, Philosophy, & Iconic Products

We unpack the legendary Schott NYC, designers of the most archetypal leather jacket styles and overall manufactures of ice-cold cool.

www.heddels.com

-Jake

 

[foster]

No evidence exists that I am aware of.

 

[ties70]

Jake,

the question that comes to mind is:
If they really were a maker of original A-2 jackets...why would their current example look as if they have taken every possible effort to reproduce the cheapest, most unauthentic mall jacket they could find?!

What a shameful waste of leather and material...

Ties

 

[mulceber]

A little below they also claim that they made Brando's jacket in The Wild One, even though that jacket was a Durable One Star, not a Schott. So we have evidence that they're lying in that piece. I wouldn't trust their A-2 claims either.

 

[busdrivermike]

It could be their claim is like some watch companies claims
About being a navy seal watch, they might have been contracted
To supply for testing but never got past the testing phase.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Don't shoot the messanger..........in this case Heddels ..................they don't write the spiel, it's provided (Cut & Paste) by the Company featured in their articles
The publishers get a % on every sale by the featured firm where the link to their site is clicked from Magazine's site

There are loads of others doing a similar operation

No Schott never made USAAF A-2, they are full of something else that starts Sch..........t

 

[Jake431]

Yeah, it just bothers me when Heddels puts themselves in the position of "educating" folks about apparel but their research methods don't even extend beyond attempting to verify a company's marketing claims. I lit them up a few years ago over their posts about flight jacket evolution, which they just regurgitated from a couple of badly researched articles. It's not that hard to get this right, and even if it is, do the work you.

 

[Cocker]

Yeah, it just bothers me when Heddels puts themselves in the position of "educating" folks about apparel but their research methods don't even extend beyond attempting to verify a company's marketing claims.

Same here, I'm pretty close to posting some comments on that friggin' article...

 

[Jake431]

Jake,

the question that comes to mind is:
If they really were a maker of original A-2 jackets...why would their current example look as if they have taken every possible effort to reproduce the cheapest, most unauthentic mall jacket they could find?!

What a shameful waste of leather and material...

Ties

Yes, and the issue I have with that is, just call it a flight jacket. I don't like their cut, but civilian flight jackets can look cool, so don't lean into some faux-provenance to sell your obviously civilian coat. I just picked up a Dehen1920 Flyer's Club jacket. They don't pretend it's a reproduction, they say it's inspired by B-15's and MA-1's and honestly it looks a bit like a hot rodder's jacket. They don't pretend it's anything other than what it is, and their marketing still lands (plus the jacket is cool). Schott has the Ramones, you don't need more than that to make your jacket's seem cool. Hell, Levi's has been selling 501's off Springsteen's ass for decades.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

What has always amazed me is how did Schott survive when so many incredible manufactures from the Golden Age didn't?
In all fairness they were never better than 3rd division when it came to cut, materials or style

 

[Bombing IP]

Ken and Jake I have just emailed Heddels about the Schott article ,I hope you do not mind but I quoted both your thoughts as they were so to the point in a cut an thrust way without mentioning both you Guys .

This is cut and paste what I sent

It just bothers me when Heddels puts themselves in the position of "educating" folks about apparel but their research methods don't even extend beyond attempting to verify a company's marketing claims. Schott never made a TypeA-2 flight jacket before the war or during the war .In my opinion you just regurgitate without research from sources who want to fool peple for financial gain . It's not that hard to get this right if you want to promote your company credability (Heddels ) , and even if it is, do your home work !. This article on Schott was a disgrace and shows your lack of research and proffesionalism .
What has always amazed me is how did Schott survive when so many incredible manufactures from the Golden Age didn't? .In all fairness they were never better than 3rd division when it came to cut, materials or style . And you have just promoted them and gave them the Heddels stamp of approval .I do not think I can take any of your articles as fact in future ! .

Respectfully Submitted Jeff Wyman NYC

BIP

 

[Jake431]

Ken and Jake I have just emailed Heddels about the Schott article ,I hope you do not mind but I quoted both your thoughts as they were so to the point in a cut an thrust way without mentioning both you Guys .

This is cut and paste what I sent

It just bothers me when Heddels puts themselves in the position of "educating" folks about apparel but their research methods don't even extend beyond attempting to verify a company's marketing claims. Schott never made a TypeA-2 flight jacket before the war or during the war .In my opinion you just regurgitate without research from sources who want to fool peple for financial gain . It's not that hard to get this right if you want to promote your company credability (Heddels ) , and even if it is, do your home work !. This article on Schott was a disgrace and shows your lack of research and proffesionalism .
What has always amazed me is how did Schott survive when so many incredible manufactures from the Golden Age didn't? .In all fairness they were never better than 3rd division when it came to cut, materials or style . And you have just promoted them and gave them the Heddels stamp of approval .I do not think I can take any of your articles as fact in future ! .

Respectfully Submitted Jeff Wyman NYC

BIP

I'll be very interested to hear what they/if they respond.

 

[MikeyB-17]

Schott have turned out a couple of decent jackets, the Perfecto is a classic, and I am very happy with my leather pea coat-but they are charging a ridiculous amount for them new (£949 at Silvermans), and, much as I like it, it ain’t worth that. I think they survived through excellent marketing, because they’ve managed to give their products a reputation they don’t really deserve-and part of that is taking credit for stuff they didn’t make. They are also guilty of some utter and total abominations, like the multi-coloured G-1’s much derided here on more than one occasion. That having been said, what’s probably my most often-worn jacket right now? An old Schott leather car coat which I picked up for peanuts off EBay. And I’ve had more than one ‘ooh, a Schott’ comment whilst wearing it.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Ken and Jake I have just emailed Heddels about the Schott article ,I hope you do not mind but I quoted both your thoughts as they were so to the point in a cut an thrust way without mentioning both you Guys .

This is cut and paste what I sent

It just bothers me when Heddels puts themselves in the position of "educating" folks about apparel but their research methods don't even extend beyond attempting to verify a company's marketing claims. Schott never made a TypeA-2 flight jacket before the war or during the war .In my opinion you just regurgitate without research from sources who want to fool peple for financial gain . It's not that hard to get this right if you want to promote your company credability (Heddels ) , and even if it is, do your home work !. This article on Schott was a disgrace and shows your lack of research and proffesionalism .
What has always amazed me is how did Schott survive when so many incredible manufactures from the Golden Age didn't? .In all fairness they were never better than 3rd division when it came to cut, materials or style . And you have just promoted them and gave them the Heddels stamp of approval .I do not think I can take any of your articles as fact in future ! .

Respectfully Submitted Jeff Wyman NYC

BIP

Rumour has it that even The Guardian "fact checks" some of it's articles

 

[Flightengineer]

Apparently this happens from time to time with many companies ... they want to attract more attention among the immature minds of young people ... At one time, Alpha Indutrichs also wrote a lot about themselves, to the point that they almost invented the M51, M65 and MA1.
By the way, Willis&Geger, as well as Schott, claimed the primacy in the production of A2 jackets, although they never made them under a contract for the Air Force, but only in the 80s and for the civilian market.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Avedon & Colby's Burt Avedon Dead at 94 - Sporting Classics Daily

He will be buried in Arlington National Cemetery with full military honors.

sportingclassicsdaily.com

The Great Lost Expedition Brand

In 1903, during an Arctic mineral-hunting expedition, an geologist by the name of Ben Willis discovered that most clothing doesn’t hold up in 100 mph winds and -60 °F temperatures. Ben returned to New York and started designing garments that could...

www.vice.com

I seem to recall several "discrepancies" in these interviews back a while
Born 1910
!2 years old in 1936
And being in the AVG are a couple that spring to mind. No sign of his name in any AVG Roll Call

 

[Jake431]

The marketing that Schott is perpetrating is one thing - I may disagree with their claims, but it's their business. What I'm primarily objecting to is Heddels regurgitating it wholesale, and calling it education about a brand's history. The writers should be able to separate those two threads. I know Heddels can do it; they've done primary research for other articles (the piece about Navy Seals wearing Levis in-country during Vietnam is a great example), they just abandon such abilities at irritating moments.

 

[33-1729]

Apparently this happens from time to time with many companies ... they want to attract more attention among the immature minds of young people ... At one time, Alpha Indutrichs also wrote a lot about themselves, to the point that they almost invented the M51, M65 and MA1.
By the way, Willis&Geger, as well as Schott, claimed the primacy in the production of A2 jackets, although they never made them under a contract for the Air Force, but only in the 80s and for the civilian market.

Willis & Geiger Outfitters said they were awarded a 1931 U.S. Navy Air Corps contract for an “A-2” flight jacket, but they probably confused it with a Navy G-1 type versus the U.S. Army Air Corp type A-2. Willis & Geiger Outfitters did work with Avirex on the re-spec of the A-2 in 1988 for the Air Force. Avirex made several hundred jackets in 1987 for the USAF 40th anniversary though, as you noted, W&GO didn’t get an A-2 government contract after the re-spec (Cooper Sportswear did).

 

[SuinBruin]

It's possible I suppose that Schott acquired at some point one of the companies that made WWII A-2s and claims the heritage on that point (much the same way Boeing's web site has pages on NAA's famous airplanes, or how it now takes credit for the McDonnell-Douglas F-15). But that would be stretching things.

As for Willis & Geiger and Burt Avedon, I've gone into why his word cannot be trusted before. If you want to read a bunch of Avedon nonsense, go here. (It does pain me to publicly castigate a fellow UCLA Bruin, but facts is facts, and Avedon simply cannot be trusted. It's amazing that no one did any fact checking on that interview in Wisconsin.)

 

[33-1729]

I agree about being skeptical. The item I found by W&G suggested an honest mistake about the A-2 (vs the G-1), but I looked at the link you posted showing the W&G tag in post #1 and what’s the term, “poetic license”? I’m unaware of Schott acquiring any original A-2 manufacturer, but even if they did they’re really stretching it in a few places on the link in post #1 above. Sigh.