-
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
RM Williams 1936 Pattern Flying Boots.
- Thread starter Andrew
- Start date
Andrew
Well-Known Member
Joking right? Sorry but it's hard to tell on the net. RMW certainly have bigger fish, the cost estimates for the various stages were mounting and with a potential order list that could be counted on one hand. The real problem was replicating the exact method of construction 70 yrs on. I've only seen shots of those MC pretend flying boots but they could only be regarded as poor impressions.Steve H said:
Steve H
Member
I bought a second hand pair of Motorcoyboys off ePrey just to satisfy curiosity and to satisfy the "don't look at the train wreck" impulse... and I'm glad I didn't pay more than 50 bucks for them- the only thing right on them is the seam between vamp and tops- the seam everyone else seems to omit or get wrong! Ironic huh? :evil: Other than that, well, you all know the score!
FtrPlt
Active Member
Gents,
The brown Bedggood 36 Pattern boots were issue items for USAAF in the PTO. Early AAF crews were kitted out with quite a bit of Brit-spec gear -- Irvin jackets, Type C helmets, and boots included. I presently have 5 pairs of the brown ones -- all direct from vets and all cite they were issued them -- i.e. they were not private purchase.
The brown Bedggood 36 Pattern boots were issue items for USAAF in the PTO. Early AAF crews were kitted out with quite a bit of Brit-spec gear -- Irvin jackets, Type C helmets, and boots included. I presently have 5 pairs of the brown ones -- all direct from vets and all cite they were issued them -- i.e. they were not private purchase.
Andrew
Well-Known Member
FP, correct I have two pairs myself and there's heaps of shots of aircrew wearing them such as these 1944 dated shots. But, despite over many years and forums i've heard the claims stating Irvins and Brit flying helmets were used, no one's actually stumped up a pic of an Irvin being used in this theatre, or a Type C helmet for that matter- the conversation just stops. Sorry for sounding sceptical but since you've at least had direct contact with those vets could you possibly provide proof this actually happened? Hopefully you might have something.
Just thinking about the logisitics it just doesn't seem possible. Any gear provided to the US would have been via the RAAF or the Department of Defence, not the Brit Air Ministry. There wasn't stocks of Irvins and Type C's sitting around here, Irvins weren't made here, and i've only ever seen one locally made Type C so they were pretty rare although the Australian version of the Type B used in training was plentiful but not practical and again never seen a shot of that either. Australian forces relied heavily on US gear throughout the War as routes to Europe were long (via Africa) and dangerous. Knowing a little about how lowly geared inductry was here at the time i'm sure it was a pretty basic arrangement just as with the maker of the V505 A-2, Bedggood were probably contracted to produce the brown version for US aircrew in response to US crew swapping kit with the black RAAF boots- that's just a theory but those two items of kit are the only items i've ever seen firsthand or in a photo.
I've searched long and hard and have found nothing but i'm hopeful something will turn up. There are heaps of pics of the crews pre departure to the SWPA in training in the States wearing B-3's etc so you would think that if shearling was needed due to high altitude that they would've sent that gear out as well. I suspect the altitudes generally weren't that high to warrant shearling as RAAF B-24 crews flying the same routes (the longest of all theatres) didn't wear flying jackets of any kind.
Looking forward to being wrong.
Just thinking about the logisitics it just doesn't seem possible. Any gear provided to the US would have been via the RAAF or the Department of Defence, not the Brit Air Ministry. There wasn't stocks of Irvins and Type C's sitting around here, Irvins weren't made here, and i've only ever seen one locally made Type C so they were pretty rare although the Australian version of the Type B used in training was plentiful but not practical and again never seen a shot of that either. Australian forces relied heavily on US gear throughout the War as routes to Europe were long (via Africa) and dangerous. Knowing a little about how lowly geared inductry was here at the time i'm sure it was a pretty basic arrangement just as with the maker of the V505 A-2, Bedggood were probably contracted to produce the brown version for US aircrew in response to US crew swapping kit with the black RAAF boots- that's just a theory but those two items of kit are the only items i've ever seen firsthand or in a photo.
I've searched long and hard and have found nothing but i'm hopeful something will turn up. There are heaps of pics of the crews pre departure to the SWPA in training in the States wearing B-3's etc so you would think that if shearling was needed due to high altitude that they would've sent that gear out as well. I suspect the altitudes generally weren't that high to warrant shearling as RAAF B-24 crews flying the same routes (the longest of all theatres) didn't wear flying jackets of any kind.
Looking forward to being wrong.
Steve H
Member
Andrew said:There are heaps of pics of the crews pre departure to the SWPA in training in the States wearing B-3's etc so you would think that if shearling was needed due to high altitude that they would've sent that gear out as well. I suspect the altitudes generally weren't that high to warrant shearling as RAAF B-24 crews flying the same routes (the longest of all theatres) didn't wear flying jackets of any kind.
Looking forward to being wrong.
Andrew, you hit the nail on the head here- Talking to one of the B-24 vets recently who operated in the SWP area, he said they never flew high enough to warrant flying jackets. Shirts and shorts or trousers were it! Yes, they used flying boots and gloves, but no jackets.
To get to the altitude that would require shearling to keep warm, you would have to be attacking a target a vast distance away in order to get the rate of climb required- most targets in PNG and other areas, well you just couldn't get to that height before you arrived over the target area. Forget ETO and its methods of operations- SWP is an animal of its own.
Also, I have spent a few years in Darwin and "other tropical areas" during my service time and can tell you that it is bloody hot- 34 degrees C and 95% humidity during the wet season and the same but maybe 60% humidity during the dry season. You sweat just standing in the shade and I am not joking. Anything leather goes mouldy- belts, shoes, ANYTHING leather- and thats in peacetime and what I personally experienced. Wartime shearling would not survive such tropical weather and would have been totally impractical- which leads me to my theory on why altitude or the fact that in the tropics you can't fly at high altitude in an un-pressured cabin is the key to what was worn and what was not-imagine sweat soaked garments worn at ground level suddenly thrust into high altitude subsequently freezing at that altitude? And I mean normal garments- your shirt and shorts/ trousers. You would be instantly wearing a frozen suit. Thats the reason so many flyers got frostbite in the early years in ETO. You couldn't even store shearling in the aircraft and put it on at 30,000 ft- you still have on wet undergarments. So, added to target distance, why fly at a high altitude? You simply physically couldn't do it or you would freeze.
Does that make sense?
Maybe the guys posted to Brisbane and lower may have temporarily worn leather kit- the temp/ humidity is much lower there but certainly not in Townsville, Darwin and higher.
