Pilot
Well-Known Member
Happy to do so...please fee free to ask if seriously interested... sent you this pm already several weeks ago...and ... you ... all ... are very (still) welcome
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RE THE FORUM PARTICIPATION
- Thread starter Bombing IP
- Start date
Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir that's most kind of you .Wishing you and yours a happy healthy new Year and a Prosperous one with your new venture ,all the best .
Rgds BIP
Rgds BIP
Pilot
Well-Known Member
Thx. likewise.
Cheers
Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
It’s only a forum and for me, the only forum i bother with. I first joined (under a different name back in 2001/2001 or so. I come, i go. I contribute where i choose and don’t when i am not interested. I do not read everything. I don’t usually bother reading when people quote me. I need no approval nor have time to read criticism. And generally, apart from maybe 6 people on here, nor do i give a toss what people think of me.
A few of us communicate outside the forum and have our fun at other members away from prying eyes. Those friendships i do value.
I know most of us are stuck with various levels of Martial Law for a flu virus but try to keep a sense of perspective.
Don’t spend more time on here, use the time in other ways.
The Devil makes work for idle hands.......
I do yearn for the early days of the forum when vintage was the norm and we had some true giants in the collecting world and some real characters - remember Steve Senicko anyone....?
A few of us communicate outside the forum and have our fun at other members away from prying eyes. Those friendships i do value.
I know most of us are stuck with various levels of Martial Law for a flu virus but try to keep a sense of perspective.
Don’t spend more time on here, use the time in other ways.
The Devil makes work for idle hands.......
I do yearn for the early days of the forum when vintage was the norm and we had some true giants in the collecting world and some real characters - remember Steve Senicko anyone....?
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
It’s only a forum and for me, the only forum i bother with. I first joined (under a different name back in 2001/2001 or so. I come, i go. I contribute where i choose and don’t when i am not interested. I do not read everything. I don’t usually bother reading when people quote me. I need no approval nor have time to read criticism. And generally, apart from maybe 6 people on here, nor do i give a toss what people think of me.
A few of us communicate outside the forum and have our fun at other members away from prying eyes. Those friendships i do value.
I know most of us are stuck with various levels of Martial Law for a flu virus but try to keep a sense of perspective.
Don’t spend more time on here, use the time in other ways.
The Devil makes work for idle hands.......
I do yearn for the early days of the forum when vintage was the norm and we had some true giants in the collecting world and some real characters - remember Steve Senicko anyone....?
The Spaniard!!
Sorry I quoted you.
Now I am worried what you think about me... Joking...Sage advice... great post.
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
ahhhhhh.....senicko. now, that was a piece of work. then there was my old buddy Simon [dubbed me silver surfer] who got the bums rush. oh, and then there was........
Kermit3D
Well-Known Member
The question of the preservation of know-how is very interesting.
I don't know anything about making jackets, so if I'm wrong, please tell me.
I think it is extremely difficult (perhaps illusory) to protect oneself against the reproduction of a jacket.
Anyone can decide to buy one of the cyclist jackets that you sell Pilot, to analyze it, measure it, and recreate the patterns needed to make it.
The cut of any jacket can be copied.
The question is: what is the added value for a jacket manufacturer?
A perfect fit ? unique leather ? price ? historical accuracy ? comfort ? communication ? ...
I'm sure there's something for every taste and budget.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I may be wrong but... I think that if someone decides to copy your jackets, Pilot, it will be difficult to stop them.
But will these copies be as accurate ? Will they be as good quality ? will the "copiers" only know the history of the jackets ?
I sincerely believe that the cycling jackets you sell have no equivalent in terms of quality, fit and historical accuracy. I'm not trying to butter you up, but I'm only judging the product, and it's clearly top quality.
So IMHO don't be afraid of others....
If someone decides to make cheap (it's not pejorative) cyclist jackets in Pakistan or elsewhere, that's great ! they are not in the same market as you and they will make very happy customers who don't have a big budget.
If someone decides to make a "homemade" cyclist jacket, that's great (and very interesting).
You seem to have a lot of knowledge to share, and I sometimes have the impression that you're holding back from saying too much, for the sake of discretion in the face of possible competition... it's a bit frustrating, especially in a forum dedicated above all to sharing.
So once again, this is only my point of view, and Pilot, I would understand if you said "occupe toi de tes affaires "
. I sometimes have trouble expressing myself properly in English, but I want you to know that my message was a kind one.
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Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
Kermit I think you do very well in English also you make a lot of valid points which I am in agreement with .First off the Cycliste jacket design does not belong to Pilot it was around 50 years before he was born . My little Pow Wow re the making of the cycliste jacket was not set up in competition with pilot it was to bring attention to what I believe to be one of the most underrated jackets of the 20th Century . As as all the members here understand what zips and what snaps are on an A2 type ,it was my way of bringing up to speed members the intricacies of the Cycliste jacket .Some enjoyed the little series of postings others saw it differently ,which I will not go into as I have have said what I had to say in a previous post . What do I think about Pilots jackets ,I think they have no peers .I think his latest German jacket is a testament to his creativity , If I did not know different I would think he had a time machine . Having said that my contribution to the forum is to bring knowledge and sometimes humour , having said that I do not know everything and I am also learning every day from you guys which I thank you for .
BIP
BIP
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Kermit3D
Well-Known Member
Bombing IP I agree 200% with that.
I would add that I think your approach to making your own jacket is excellent. It brings a lot of knowledge about a jacket that, as you say, is underestimated.
... and if someone sees your thread and says "I want a jacket like this" I'm sure they'll find it with Pilot.
And those who don't have the budget and/or who are less demanding on precision and historical accuracy will go to FiveStar Leather for example.
I want to be clear: I find what FiveStar Leather has to offer very good. It's unbeatable value for money. But they're in a different market, it's not premium.
On my side I unfortunately don't have much to bring as knowledge... but I'm very grateful for everything I can learn here
I would add that I think your approach to making your own jacket is excellent. It brings a lot of knowledge about a jacket that, as you say, is underestimated.
... and if someone sees your thread and says "I want a jacket like this" I'm sure they'll find it with Pilot.
And those who don't have the budget and/or who are less demanding on precision and historical accuracy will go to FiveStar Leather for example.
I want to be clear: I find what FiveStar Leather has to offer very good. It's unbeatable value for money. But they're in a different market, it's not premium.
On my side I unfortunately don't have much to bring as knowledge... but I'm very grateful for everything I can learn here
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Not to detract or derail the previous conversations, but simply to refocus on the title and purpose of the thread , I’d like to say well done to Rob 917-K for diving into the deep end of the pool today with that post of his original B-15 series of awesome jackets and A-11 pants . Bombing IP suggested that more people needed to step up and contribute and Rob did that in spades . Where have you been dude ?? Now that was a good post and one that I think we’d all like to see more of .
I will add one thing that’s always in the back of my mind when posting jackets or collections, and it’s something that I’d like to put out here in this conversation . I’ve seen guys with great collections come here and leave here, and there is a fine line that you have to be aware of when posting your jackets or collections . A person has to do everything possible to convey relevant information, historical background and anecdotal relevancy of the objects being shown or otherwise you run the risk of being branded as simply a “Hey look at me ! , Look what I have “ poster who’s simply showing off . I think it’s something we all need to keep in the back of our minds, that first and foremost we all found our way here seeking information and trying to learn more about this hobby . So we should always try to incorporate some type of history , facts or background of the jackets or objects that we put up for others to see, so that there can be a transfer of knowledge and some learning taking place . Once again nice job and a big thumbs up to Rob 917-K for his contributions today .
Cheers
Now that was a good post and one that I think we’d all like to see more of . I will add one thing that’s always in the back of my mind when posting jackets or collections, and it’s something that I’d like to put out here in this conversation . I’ve seen guys with great collections come here and leave here, and there is a fine line that you have to be aware of when posting your jackets or collections . A person has to do everything possible to convey relevant information, historical background and anecdotal relevancy of the objects being shown or otherwise you run the risk of being branded as simply a “Hey look at me ! , Look what I have “ poster who’s simply showing off . I think it’s something we all need to keep in the back of our minds, that first and foremost we all found our way here seeking information and trying to learn more about this hobby . So we should always try to incorporate some type of history , facts or background of the jackets or objects that we put up for others to see, so that there can be a transfer of knowledge and some learning taking place . Once again nice job and a big thumbs up to Rob 917-K for his contributions today .
Cheers
Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
Burt I agree 100% with you and I also would like to say to Rob Rob 917-K a big thank you for the posting he did today it was most interesting .Why was it interesting ?, we all focus on different things and some jackets we know the names of we do not know much about them . This down the road may wet our appetite to purchase such a jacket especially now we have now have history and people modeling them .This has happened to me with the Irvin which I purchased just recently and now my interest has peaked to the cycliste jacket . Neither jacket I knew much about but now have a coveted place in my wardrobe ,that is the Irvin I do not have a cycliste jacket yet . I wish to state when I started this thread it was not my intention to insult some of the the members or belittle them ,if I came across that way I apologise .What I wanted to do was unlock some of the info locked away in peoples heads & closets and I sort of did this with a jolt so as to speak . I have written a lot of posts as of late after my hiatus from the VLJ ,I tend to shoot from the hip with some of my statements do not take it as a personal attack . It's more that I am a bit of an Arse at times and say things as I see them ,now that I got that out of the way Let the Show go on .
BIP roger out
BIP roger out
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Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
Not to detract or derail the previous conversations, but simply to refocus on the title and purpose of the thread , I’d like to say well done to Rob 917-K for diving into the deep end of the pool today with that post of his original B-15 series of awesome jackets and A-11 pants . Bombing IP suggested that more people needed to step up and contribute and Rob did that in spades . Where have you been dude ??
I will add one thing that’s always in the back of my mind when posting jackets or collections, and it’s something that I’d like to put out here in this conversation . I’ve seen guys with great collections come here and leave here, and there is a fine line that you have to be aware of when posting your jackets or collections . A person has to do everything possible to convey relevant information, historical background and anecdotal relevancy of the objects being shown or otherwise you run the risk of being branded as simply a “Hey look at me ! , Look what I have “ poster who’s simply showing off . I think it’s something we all need to keep in the back of our minds, that first and foremost we all found our way here seeking information and trying to learn more about this hobby . So we should always try to incorporate some type of history , facts or background of the jackets or objects that we put up for others to see, so that there can be a transfer of knowledge and some learning taking place . Once again nice job and a big thumbs up to Rob 917-K for his contributions today .
Cheers
Great points Burt.
Also, we have seen some absolute novices come on here, absorb (even steal) information and then regurgitate it with a haughty, know-it-all manner. Or disappear because not enough homage was paid to them.
We are all equals on here - but some know more than others. And generally, the really knowledgable ones are very cool. There have been exceptions of course
What i hate are people who come on here and take but don’t give a thing..... every post is asking for something.
Dave
Carl
Well-Known Member
I consider myself a "novice" as such compared to many on here ,when it comes to jackets.Great points Burt.
Also, we have seen some absolute novices come on here, absorb (even steal) information and then regurgitate it with a haughty, know-it-all manner. Or disappear because not enough homage was paid to them.
We are all equals on here - but some know more than others. And generally, the really knowledgable ones are very cool. There have been exceptions of course
What i hate are people who come on here and take but don’t give a thing..... every post is asking for something.
Dave
All is not what you think it is while learning, thus the forum is a great place to learn from.
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
As the original designer of the most copied leather jacket design of the last 50 years, The Aero Highwayman, I'm probably the best placed to comment even though it has been pointed out that the French Cyclist Jacket designs ISN'T a new unique design, like it or not, The Highwayman was unique, inspired by earlier jackets but barely recognisable alongside it's inspiration
Pilot : Get used to it.
It took 3 years for the first copies of The Highwayman to surface, (Flip of Glasgow) now almost every leather manufacturer has done a copy. from the blatently obvious like Sam Walker or Simmons Bilt at the bottom of the ladder (these two even used stolen Aero patterns) to Ralph Lauren at the other end
A long time ago I learnt to go with Oscar Wilde's definition 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.' .........or something like that
Pilot : Get used to it.
It took 3 years for the first copies of The Highwayman to surface, (Flip of Glasgow) now almost every leather manufacturer has done a copy. from the blatently obvious like Sam Walker or Simmons Bilt at the bottom of the ladder (these two even used stolen Aero patterns) to Ralph Lauren at the other end
A long time ago I learnt to go with Oscar Wilde's definition 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.' .........or something like that
Pilot
Well-Known Member
Thx. Ken, well said and pointed out!
We ( me included ) are all aware ... imitations cannot be stopped...I dont owne any pattents nor industrial property rights... but...
for my part ( my private investment and protective duty towards dependency of two employees) , I want to keep the “ free riders” as long as possible on the “ imitation level” and for sure will not assist them to get “better an better” ... as seen here for other jackets...
If someone pays the price for my jacket, he can “cut it into shrapnel’s “ and publish whatever (she) he pleases...At least there was a financial contribution to my efforts and investments....
My information contribution, my Modus Operandi....
No offence nor aggression towards anyone.
Micawber
Well-Known Member
Well worth reading Burt's comments again [click here]
As Dave said, it's only a forum [that is when it's working ]. A forum full of niche discussions not on life saving medicines or how to end wars ...but on items of clothing ... old clothing ...or copies of old clothing at that.
As Dave said, it's only a forum [that is when it's working
]. A forum full of niche discussions not on life saving medicines or how to end wars ...but on items of clothing ... old clothing ...or copies of old clothing at that.
foster
Well-Known Member
I still consider myself a newcomer here, and I am only on sporadically (usually during those times when the weather is cool enough for me to actually wear a jacket).
I will say that I find the forum format to be much better than the Facebook interest-related page format. I can find things here, whereas on Facebook, I might see something of interest and be unable to locate it even minutes later.
As to the forum itself, it has had a definite shift in content and topics since I started visiting. My main interest in joining and posting was related to the research possibilities, specifically relating to the A-2 jacket, and some other military garments. I wanted to learn all I could, once I was able to begin purchasing replicas of the A-2 jacket. The information learned here was (and remains) excellent, and satisfies my curiosities. Some questions remain, but I try to approach them as a lifelong student while listening to others and asking questions that pop up in my mind. Some knowledgeable members have left, but there is still excellent information archived here.
I do try to keep in mind that although I am not unique in such interests here, these interests are not shared by everyone else on this forum. I do not expect everyone to be differentiating the minutiae of zippers or snaps or linings or stitch count. I am usually enriched by those who do share those interests, but many (if not most) do not care about the details. I like to think members are welcome no matter which side of which fence they may reside in that regard.
In summary, I dabble now and then on this forum. But my forum participation is usually increased when there are others commenting on details that I notice and have questions or observations about. When there is little discussion on topics that interest me, I don't post much or visit as often. That being said, I have never viewed this forum as an inefficient use of my time (but every visit to Facebook does leave me with that sensation).
I will say that I find the forum format to be much better than the Facebook interest-related page format. I can find things here, whereas on Facebook, I might see something of interest and be unable to locate it even minutes later.
As to the forum itself, it has had a definite shift in content and topics since I started visiting. My main interest in joining and posting was related to the research possibilities, specifically relating to the A-2 jacket, and some other military garments. I wanted to learn all I could, once I was able to begin purchasing replicas of the A-2 jacket. The information learned here was (and remains) excellent, and satisfies my curiosities. Some questions remain, but I try to approach them as a lifelong student while listening to others and asking questions that pop up in my mind. Some knowledgeable members have left, but there is still excellent information archived here.
I do try to keep in mind that although I am not unique in such interests here, these interests are not shared by everyone else on this forum. I do not expect everyone to be differentiating the minutiae of zippers or snaps or linings or stitch count. I am usually enriched by those who do share those interests, but many (if not most) do not care about the details. I like to think members are welcome no matter which side of which fence they may reside in that regard.
In summary, I dabble now and then on this forum. But my forum participation is usually increased when there are others commenting on details that I notice and have questions or observations about. When there is little discussion on topics that interest me, I don't post much or visit as often. That being said, I have never viewed this forum as an inefficient use of my time (but every visit to Facebook does leave me with that sensation).
