Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
If Bit coin is set against currency then that's its failing .Yes intangible for sure but 100% vunerable .
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Price increase at Eastman Leather
- Thread starter Lorenzo_l
- Start date
Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you know how currencies work in England and in the USA ,most people do not understand the principle its just taken for granted .
BIP
BIP
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
Across it... Just wanted to highlight the point you made where currency is a low cost tender, generated at the whim of the Government of the day. Gold is a valued commodity (like a jacket) that has a fluctuating value when compared to the tender. Currently one Bitcoin is now over USD$41K. A friend of mine paid off his $700K property with $50K of Bitcoin purchased at just the right time. For something on a spreadsheet, with less tangible value than a dollar note.
Jackets, Gold or Bitcoin may be traded for the tender at a point of the seller's choosing, riding the ebbs and flows of the market. The jackets will always have a value. I mentioned in a thread yesterday I used the varation across the JPY, AUD and USD to make a killing out of BR and ELC jackets in 2008-09. The JPY and USD have been aligned for years now.
The AUD is rising and just shy of USD$0.80, hitting the buying phase. Mid-year it was USD$0.55 and certainly time to sell. I only had a few items to clear on hand away from home during isolation or I could have double my money on many items. Not sure if our dollar is rising fast or the USD is falling a bit.. Nearly 2:1 ratio for a sale then compared to 5:4 now.
Jackets, Gold or Bitcoin may be traded for the tender at a point of the seller's choosing, riding the ebbs and flows of the market. The jackets will always have a value. I mentioned in a thread yesterday I used the varation across the JPY, AUD and USD to make a killing out of BR and ELC jackets in 2008-09. The JPY and USD have been aligned for years now.
The AUD is rising and just shy of USD$0.80, hitting the buying phase. Mid-year it was USD$0.55 and certainly time to sell. I only had a few items to clear on hand away from home during isolation or I could have double my money on many items. Not sure if our dollar is rising fast or the USD is falling a bit.. Nearly 2:1 ratio for a sale then compared to 5:4 now.
Rutger
Well-Known Member
Bought a brand new ELC Werber 1729 ten years ago. 648 euro.
If I'd buy one today I'd have to pay 1268 Euro (1099,99 GBP as per website). That's without taxes/customs, without shipping.....
Corrected for inflation at 3%, the 648 euro from back then would now be a selling price of 871 euro. ELC with 1268 euro are charging a bit more than that, about 45% that is.
The ELC inflation amounts to 7% per year, which doesn't sound like a lot.
Mind you, by that they have roughly been adding a 4 %point profit margin each year on average.
Given average interest over the past decade my 648 would have amounted to....uuhm...716 euro.
So if I put my Werber up for sale for 716 euro I would break even based on savings interest.
Corrected for inflation I would however have to sell it for 871 euro to be able to buy whatever I could have bought for it ten years ago.
Not that I care much about ELC charging whatever they charge. I mean, whatever money they can make.....why not.
It's not like they are abusing people to gain higher profits.
It's just the idiots willing to stump up these amounts.
And if they're happy doing so, then by all means go ahead.
I am however, very curious about the profit percentage of today's ELC jackets.
I would guess anything from 5-10% ten years ago, to a solid 20-25% nowadays.
If I'd buy one today I'd have to pay 1268 Euro (1099,99 GBP as per website). That's without taxes/customs, without shipping.....
Corrected for inflation at 3%, the 648 euro from back then would now be a selling price of 871 euro. ELC with 1268 euro are charging a bit more than that, about 45% that is.
The ELC inflation amounts to 7% per year, which doesn't sound like a lot.
Mind you, by that they have roughly been adding a 4 %point profit margin each year on average.
Given average interest over the past decade my 648 would have amounted to....uuhm...716 euro.
So if I put my Werber up for sale for 716 euro I would break even based on savings interest.
Corrected for inflation I would however have to sell it for 871 euro to be able to buy whatever I could have bought for it ten years ago.
Not that I care much about ELC charging whatever they charge. I mean, whatever money they can make.....why not.
It's not like they are abusing people to gain higher profits.
It's just the idiots willing to stump up these amounts.
And if they're happy doing so, then by all means go ahead.
I am however, very curious about the profit percentage of today's ELC jackets.
I would guess anything from 5-10% ten years ago, to a solid 20-25% nowadays.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
Yes, having bought my ELС 3.5 years ago I couldn't afford it today.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
If you put it into Bitcoin five years ago you could buy anything you want! $150000!
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Leather improvements might be argued as justification for additional costs beyond inflation. Increased labour costs and further materials driving costs upwards and marketing expenses overseas etc etc etc.
And/ Or
If their are customers out there with lots of money why not take as much money as we can from them and enjoy and ride this jacket bubble for as long as possible.
And/ Or
If their are customers out there with lots of money why not take as much money as we can from them and enjoy and ride this jacket bubble for as long as possible.
Micawber
Well-Known Member
Back in the old days you could take a bird to the pictures, have a smooch in the back row then pint or several and a pickled egg in the Dog & Duck, buy a packet of Players, treat the bird to fish n chips or maybe pie and mash, have a cuddle on the backseat of the bus home and still have change outta ten Bob.
Couldn't do that nowadays that's for sure.
Or in other words prices have tended to go up for decades. There are innumerable factors for this not least the urge for retailers to squeeze as much profit for goods as the mugs, sorry, buyers will pay until numbers of complaints about profiteering becomes an embarrassment.
Couldn't do that nowadays that's for sure.
Or in other words prices have tended to go up for decades. There are innumerable factors for this not least the urge for retailers to squeeze as much profit for goods as the mugs, sorry, buyers will pay until numbers of complaints about profiteering becomes an embarrassment.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
You pay $9 for a beer in a pub now. $12 for a glass of wine. Barley is cheap, grapes grow in large numbers!
CBI
Well-Known Member
I feel very lucky that if I wanted to buy an Eastman, I could but I simply don't want to pay those prices for a leather jacket. The price is not worth it for me anymore. I am not commenting on if its too high a price or not, its just an item that is not worth that price for me to own. I would rather spend that much coin on something(s) else.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Spot on CBI and this was pretty much exactly what I said on page 3 of this thread back in 2018...
Three years on and it's probably even more apt now considering that ELC stuff costs even more now than it did then.
This isn't about being able to afford it - like you I could afford to jump on the ELC website right now and buy one of their jackets, actually several right now as I just received a healthy tax return back - but rather that what you're paying no longer matches the value of what you're getting.
This balance between cost and perceived value is obviously different from person to person but it does seem that over the last few years more and more members on here seem to now think that what you pay for an ELC jacket no longer matches the value of what you're getting with it.
This isn't Eastman bashing, it's a legitimate perception of an extremely important factor of their products, the price. I personally love their stuff, I just don't think it's worth what you have to fork out for it now.
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Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
Agree with all of the above.
Also, maybe there is a skills shortage issue: good staff retiring, needing to attract younger trainees and retain them. When you can make £30k p.a. As a freaking covid marshall, real skills ought to be more valued right ?
Also, maybe there is a skills shortage issue: good staff retiring, needing to attract younger trainees and retain them. When you can make £30k p.a. As a freaking covid marshall, real skills ought to be more valued right ?
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
CBI and Smithy
Both of you guys nailed it in your posts . It simply comes down to each individuals perception of value. Before there was 5 Star, BK, DuBow. Your choices were GW, ELC and Aero , most of them selling jackets in the $650-$800 price ranges . And if we wanted an accurate repro of good quality we bought one.
Well now those jackets are up over $1600, but if you’re willing to accept another makers repro that has 90 or 95% of the accuracy and quality, it will cost you about $750.00 to $900.00 less money . So where is the value for the dollar ? In my opinion no one other than one of us nerds is going to notice the difference between an ELC DuBow and a Platon or BK DuBow, so the value of those jackets now equals the value of top tier jacket , at a much lower price point . Back about 7 years ago I remember a lot of discussions about the continuous price increases that were taking place and I remember people commenting that at some point , something had to give . The void that the top tier makers were leaving behind them in the $500-$600 price ranges was going to be filled by less expensive jacket makers who made good quality products, but maybe lacking in a bit of accuracy . Well that’s exactly what’s happened and the value of paying $1600 for a repro A2 just isn’t there anymore for many, especially when you can purchase a pretty good repro for half that price. You only have to go back to about 2009 to 2010 to see what most guys were posting when they wanted to show their new jackets . About once or twice a week someone was posting their new ELC , Aero or GW and we all loved them .... But what’s being posted today?? Guys with new 5 Stars or Platon DuBows occasionally a new ELC
or Aero but not very often . So my point is that most of us are not trying to bash ELC or any other maker . Most of us have owned or still own some of their products . We are just voicing an opinion of what seems to be their periodic over the top price increases, and letting each other know that we no longer see the value of owning a high priced product, when there are comparable products that will fill that need at less expensive costs .
Thanks for viewing this opinion .
Cheers
Both of you guys nailed it in your posts . It simply comes down to each individuals perception of value. Before there was 5 Star, BK, DuBow. Your choices were GW, ELC and Aero , most of them selling jackets in the $650-$800 price ranges . And if we wanted an accurate repro of good quality we bought one.
Well now those jackets are up over $1600, but if you’re willing to accept another makers repro that has 90 or 95% of the accuracy and quality, it will cost you about $750.00 to $900.00 less money . So where is the value for the dollar ? In my opinion no one other than one of us nerds is going to notice the difference between an ELC DuBow and a Platon or BK DuBow, so the value of those jackets now equals the value of top tier jacket , at a much lower price point . Back about 7 years ago I remember a lot of discussions about the continuous price increases that were taking place and I remember people commenting that at some point , something had to give . The void that the top tier makers were leaving behind them in the $500-$600 price ranges was going to be filled by less expensive jacket makers who made good quality products, but maybe lacking in a bit of accuracy . Well that’s exactly what’s happened and the value of paying $1600 for a repro A2 just isn’t there anymore for many, especially when you can purchase a pretty good repro for half that price. You only have to go back to about 2009 to 2010 to see what most guys were posting when they wanted to show their new jackets . About once or twice a week someone was posting their new ELC , Aero or GW and we all loved them .... But what’s being posted today?? Guys with new 5 Stars or Platon DuBows occasionally a new ELC
or Aero but not very often . So my point is that most of us are not trying to bash ELC or any other maker . Most of us have owned or still own some of their products . We are just voicing an opinion of what seems to be their periodic over the top price increases, and letting each other know that we no longer see the value of owning a high priced product, when there are comparable products that will fill that need at less expensive costs .
Thanks for viewing this opinion .
Cheers
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
At least with Eastman and Aero you have a smaller time frame for the production of your jacket. Many consider the GW wait ludicrous and any price difference certainly offsets that. And you can throw it on your credit card!
'Speculation' on 'what and when' with a GW jacket, with regards to hide availability and contract switches, is an informed risk.
The reduced timeline for a GW would be due to reduced demand and a few efficiencies in the process.... Communications can be troublesome.
'You get what you pay for'.....with Eastman and Asro you get it quicker...
I would never pay what many here outlay for a pair of boots or a watch. Both items that have their own threads. T-shirts have a thread too....but don't buy an Eastman one based on price?
C'mon gents.....
'Speculation' on 'what and when' with a GW jacket, with regards to hide availability and contract switches, is an informed risk.
The reduced timeline for a GW would be due to reduced demand and a few efficiencies in the process.... Communications can be troublesome.
'You get what you pay for'.....with Eastman and Asro you get it quicker...
I would never pay what many here outlay for a pair of boots or a watch. Both items that have their own threads. T-shirts have a thread too....but don't buy an Eastman one based on price?
C'mon gents.....
Enigma1938
Well-Known Member
Bought a brand new ELC Werber 1729 ten years ago. 648 euro.
If I'd buy one today I'd have to pay 1268 Euro (1099,99 GBP as per website). That's without taxes/customs, without shipping.....
Corrected for inflation at 3%, the 648 euro from back then would now be a selling price of 871 euro. ELC with 1268 euro are charging a bit more than that, about 45% that is.
The ELC inflation amounts to 7% per year, which doesn't sound like a lot.
Mind you, by that they have roughly been adding a 4 %point profit margin each year on average.
Given average interest over the past decade my 648 would have amounted to....uuhm...716 euro.
So if I put my Werber up for sale for 716 euro I would break even based on savings interest.
Corrected for inflation I would however have to sell it for 871 euro to be able to buy whatever I could have bought for it ten years ago.
Not that I care much about ELC charging whatever they charge. I mean, whatever money they can make.....why not.
It's not like they are abusing people to gain higher profits.
It's just the idiots willing to stump up these amounts.
And if they're happy doing so, then by all means go ahead.
I am however, very curious about the profit percentage of today's ELC jackets.
I would guess anything from 5-10% ten years ago, to a solid 20-25% nowadays.
View attachment 57989
Hmmmm... that's weird, I bought my elc rough wear 1401 just one year later and had to pay roundabout 807 Euro without shipping.
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Having just bought a new Werber, I can certainly say it was an episode of a fool with his money. However, I’m hopelessly impulsive, and had been eyeing that model for some time. And while I think the price is high, I justified it in my head somehow. And I wanted to patronize Charles at HPA, who I imagine is feeling the price hikes most of all. It’s a lovely jacket.
Still, best bang for buck is used.
Still, best bang for buck is used.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
These words must be carved into granite. Here is a picture that I posted before, but I think it's worth doing it again...
