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Patched A1, sorry no date on this one
- Thread starter oose
- Start date
Dr H
Well-Known Member
Could never get away with the A-1, riding breeches and tall boots these days of course, but a great look with the A-1. The proportions are really made for that silhouette.
On the other hand whichever photographer allowed him to pose directly in front of that propellor spinner with it set at 'quarter to three' deserves to be sacked. It looks like he's sporting a pair of ears (akin to photographing somebody with a tree emerging from their head :roll: )
On the other hand whichever photographer allowed him to pose directly in front of that propellor spinner with it set at 'quarter to three' deserves to be sacked. It looks like he's sporting a pair of ears (akin to photographing somebody with a tree emerging from their head :roll: )
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
It's probably either an early "Pursuit" group emblem or possibly a School Squadron or Air Base Group type, it looks like a P-12 aircraft behind him so this is definatly "pre war" .
Johnny
Johnny
Falcon_52
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's definitely Tinker. I saw that same photo (only much larger) hanging in a Starbucks coffee place right outside of Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City some years back. I wish I had information on the patch...where is Zoomer when we need him? This is probably right up his alley.
Noel
Noel
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
O.K. , here's some "possibilities" as to what patch he has on his A-1, he was at the "Oklahoma City Air Logisitics center, the "Air Service Advanced Flying School" out of Kelly Field,Texas, maybe that one, also the School of Aviation Medicine was at Brooks Field, maybe that one, another Signal Corps Aviation School also at Kelly, then you have him with the 20th Pursuit Group in 1930 and then onto the 17th Pursuit Group in 1932 , so there's a good grouping of "possibles' this emblem could be from .......................
Johnny
Johnny
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
It is not either the 17th Pursuit Group or the 20th Pursuit Group....but I am not sure what it is. I also suspect it might be a Squadron rather than a Group. There is a book on Air Corps distinctive insignia (D.I.'s) by Jay Massaro, which I don't have, but bet will have this one in it.
17th Pursuit Group
20th Pursuit Group
17th Pursuit Group
20th Pursuit Group
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Duhhhhh, I know it wasn't either of those "group's" emblems , what I was meaning that is that they were the only "Pursuit" units he was with at the time of the "photos" era if even then , there's a possibility it could be an "Unofficial" Group emblem of one of the other units/schools etc I posted about , and yes it is most likely "Group" related as WW-2 "Squadrons" were supposed to be on a "Round" background and "groups" on a shield background such as his patch .
He went into Bomber units after the 2 Pursuit units .
johnny
He went into Bomber units after the 2 Pursuit units .
johnny
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
EMBLEMHUNTER said:
I have a book that shows the insignia from the Groups and Schools from this time period (1920's/30's), and this patch is not there. However, I don't think that it probably shows everything.
As far as the shield insignia shape versus the round, while I agree that that was the regulation in WW II, I am not sure when they put that in place. My guess is that standardization did not occur until the mid to late 1930's.
I also don't think this will turn out to be an "unofficial" insignia. I found a larger version of the photo in question, and this insignia was painted on a plane in the background as well. Given that, I am a bit surprised that this is not easier to sort out.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
The aircraft in the background does have an "emblem" on it's fuselage but it is very blurry and you really can't make out the details , it "may" be this same emblem , or another , a lot of the "group" types were similar in designs , now if we could find a clearer shot of that aircraft it would help .
I'm leaning towards a "School" type, seeing as there are two different type of aircraft there in that photo , those early "30's " era units were not documented too good in photos, Johnny
I also noticed that on Gen.Tinkers patch there is either a "latin" motto or some form of wording on the scroll at the bottom of the patch, if this could be "read" that would open up a much better search area .
I'm leaning towards a "School" type, seeing as there are two different type of aircraft there in that photo , those early "30's " era units were not documented too good in photos, Johnny
I also noticed that on Gen.Tinkers patch there is either a "latin" motto or some form of wording on the scroll at the bottom of the patch, if this could be "read" that would open up a much better search area .
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
I think the both the patch and the insignia on the plane are the same. However, I can't make out the torch that Stu is seeing. In US insignia heraldry, a torch or a lamp of knowledge indicates a School or Training Command/Group/Squadron, which makes sense given Tinker's service history.
EMBLEMHUNTER
Well-Known Member
Too bad he has the parachute rig over his shoulder , the same patch is there just peeking out from under it .................................
unclegrumpy
Well-Known Member
I agree!EMBLEMHUNTER said:
Also, I recently got a look at a copy of the Distinctive Insignia book I mentioned in an earlier post....this insignia was not in it.
