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Original B-15D MOD (with new photos added)
- Thread starter greyhound52
- Start date
dujardin
Well-Known Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Marcel:
Here's a quick explanation to the best of my knowledge:
The original lightweight nylon jacket was the green-lined L-2, which was olive drab in color. The L-2 was followed by the blue L-2A in the early 1950s, and in the mid-1950s the sage green L-2B was introduced. As we recently discovered right here on VLJ, the earliest L-2Bs apparently had OD lining but this was followed by grey lining in the 7448A, B, and C revisions. The first orange-lined L-2B is the 1960 7448D Skyline contract.
Intermediate nylon jackets followed a similar timeline and color progression with the B-15B, B-15C (seen in both OD and blue) and the sage green B-15D. Many examples of the B-15 family were modified in the 1950s by the substitution of knit collars as standardized in the MA-1. Although it was introduced with green lining, for some reason the MA-1 took a bit longer than the L-2B to appear with orange lining (8279C Skyline 1961).
Hope this helps![/quote]
Yes, many thanks.... now before i forget it, i will take note in a file.
many thanks
byeeeeeee marcel
Marcel:
Here's a quick explanation to the best of my knowledge:
The original lightweight nylon jacket was the green-lined L-2, which was olive drab in color. The L-2 was followed by the blue L-2A in the early 1950s, and in the mid-1950s the sage green L-2B was introduced. As we recently discovered right here on VLJ, the earliest L-2Bs apparently had OD lining but this was followed by grey lining in the 7448A, B, and C revisions. The first orange-lined L-2B is the 1960 7448D Skyline contract.
Intermediate nylon jackets followed a similar timeline and color progression with the B-15B, B-15C (seen in both OD and blue) and the sage green B-15D. Many examples of the B-15 family were modified in the 1950s by the substitution of knit collars as standardized in the MA-1. Although it was introduced with green lining, for some reason the MA-1 took a bit longer than the L-2B to appear with orange lining (8279C Skyline 1961).
Hope this helps![/quote]
Yes, many thanks.... now before i forget it, i will take note in a file.
many thanks
byeeeeeee marcel
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Wouldn't they have been introduced at more, or less, the same time?
Both of the initial 'orange lining' contracts were awarded to the same maker, and although the L-2B is dated August 1960 ... both contracts fall within the same (1961) fiscal year.
Good 'sticky' for Marcel, by the way.
watchmanjimg said:
Wouldn't they have been introduced at more, or less, the same time?
Both of the initial 'orange lining' contracts were awarded to the same maker, and although the L-2B is dated August 1960 ... both contracts fall within the same (1961) fiscal year.
Good 'sticky' for Marcel, by the way.
watchmanjimg
Well-Known Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Thanks, David. I was hoping to clarify things for Marcel, but while we're at it perhaps we should all work together to create a reference that the entire forum can benefit from. It seems that the same questions keep arising with regard to nylon jackets, and often definitive answers elude us.
I suppose they would have, more or less. I said that the orange-lined MA-1 took "a bit longer" to appear, based on its labeling which suggests that the stock number for the MA-1 was issued subsequent to that of the D-model L-2B. Whether in this case a "bit" means a minute, two weeks, or some greater or lesser interval I have no idea, but I guess my statement was either correct or incorrect. Given the context in which it was made, I hope the remark wasn't perceived as irresponsible or misleading.
deeb7 said:Good 'sticky' for Marcel, by the way.
Thanks, David.
I was hoping to clarify things for Marcel, but while we're at it perhaps we should all work together to create a reference that the entire forum can benefit from. It seems that the same questions keep arising with regard to nylon jackets, and often definitive answers elude us.watchmanjimg said:
deeb7 said:
I suppose they would have, more or less. I said that the orange-lined MA-1 took "a bit longer" to appear, based on its labeling which suggests that the stock number for the MA-1 was issued subsequent to that of the D-model L-2B. Whether in this case a "bit" means a minute, two weeks, or some greater or lesser interval I have no idea, but I guess my statement was either correct or incorrect. Given the context in which it was made, I hope the remark wasn't perceived as irresponsible or misleading.
dujardin
Well-Known Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
thanks a lot everyone,
still complicate to find my way with all those jacket....
it would help much if someone can send me (or make a post with) the genealogic tree from the book ''full gear''.
all pictures i already saw of it are too small and/or incomplete.
byeeeeeee marcel
thanks a lot everyone,
still complicate to find my way with all those jacket....
it would help much if someone can send me (or make a post with) the genealogic tree from the book ''full gear''.
all pictures i already saw of it are too small and/or incomplete.
byeeeeeee marcel
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Good idea, and a lot of the information is already here ... if only our Search was up to the task of finding it. :?
Not at all, Jim ... and I am sure that you are correct, in that the L-2B did come first. It was the statement, "for some reason the MA-1 took a bit longer" that I wanted to clarify .. it just sounded to me, as if you were meaning a longer gap.
watchmanjimg said:Thanks, David.
Good idea, and a lot of the information is already here ... if only our Search was up to the task of finding it. :?
Not at all, Jim ... and I am sure that you are correct, in that the L-2B did come first. It was the statement, "for some reason the MA-1 took a bit longer" that I wanted to clarify .. it just sounded to me, as if you were meaning a longer gap.
jack aranda
Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
First of all, thank you, Marcel for posing the questions that have had my head spinning since I first dialed into the nylon end of the flight jacket universe. Next, David, the book you recommend to Marcel--is that the book I queried you about yesterday, "Suit Up", or another tome? Right now, I'm not sure when I'm looking at an MA-1, L2-B, or B-15, or when one morphed into the other. Novice's muddle, I know, but Marcel's notion of genealogic list would be super, a bit like the cladistics worked out for dinosaur evolution. Thanks.
First of all, thank you, Marcel for posing the questions that have had my head spinning since I first dialed into the nylon end of the flight jacket universe. Next, David, the book you recommend to Marcel--is that the book I queried you about yesterday, "Suit Up", or another tome? Right now, I'm not sure when I'm looking at an MA-1, L2-B, or B-15, or when one morphed into the other. Novice's muddle, I know, but Marcel's notion of genealogic list would be super, a bit like the cladistics worked out for dinosaur evolution. Thanks.
dujardin
Well-Known Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
for sure a day i will buy this book, but alas not the right time today; i will chek this in may.
bye
and many thanks to all....
enjoy to see so much enthousiams on this discussion.
friendship from Belgium
marcel
deeb7 said:dujardin said:
... or you could buy the book, Marcel.
for sure a day i will buy this book, but alas not the right time today; i will chek this in may.
bye
and many thanks to all....
enjoy to see so much enthousiams on this discussion.
friendship from Belgium
marcel
greyhound52
New Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
OK Jack here you go a list in order of dates for the nylon jackets courtesy of Tamoko from another post
LIGHT ZONE
.................................................
L-2
MIL-J-5391
1945 ? -> 1950 ?
.................................................
L-2A
MIL-J-5391A (1950-03-13->1950-10-10)
sz 34->48 !!
.................................................
First L-2B 1952-01-17 "GREAT LAKES GARMENT MFG.CO."
MIL-J-7448 (17 Jan. -1952)
MIL-J-7448A (19 May. -1953)
MIL-J-7448B (16 May. -1955)
MIL-J-7448C ?
MIL-J-7448D ?
MIL-J-7448E ?
MIL-J-7448F ?
MIL-J-7448G (27 Apr. -1965)
MIL-J-7448H (20 Okt. -1965)
MIL-J-7448J (16 Apr. -1969)
MIL-J-7448K (15 Feb. -1979)
...................................................
1952-01-17->1953- ?- ?
1953-05-19->1955-05-16
?
?
?
?
1965-04-27->1965-10-20
1969-04-16->1976-04-01
1976-04-01->1979-02-15
.................................................
Intermediate
B-15
(1944-03-18-> 1944-10-06)
B-15A
(1944-11-03-> 1945-08-29)
B-15B
1945-08-29->?
B-15C
1950
B-15D
(1952-02-07-> 1953-01-13)
MA-1
Aero Medical Laboratory
Sub-Order R-666351-36
Date: 1954-15-04
But what i have found on Aer. Med. Lab. labels: On other Jackets (L-2A, L-2B) this label test sample is dated 1 year later after official mil. spec. document contract start date. So probably the official contract for MA-1 is 1953.
If you see cancelation date on B-15D 1953 it will be correct for MA-1.
MIL-J-8279
MIL-J-8279A
MIL-J-8279B
MIL-J-8279C (1960-10-14-> 1961-03-20)
MIL-J-8279D (1965-05-27-> 1965-09-10)
MIL-J-8279E (1963-09-05-> 1969-02-20)
MIL-J-8279F (1978-11-06-> 19??- ?- ?)
MIL-J-8279G (1978-11-06-> 1988-03-118)
OK Jack here you go a list in order of dates for the nylon jackets courtesy of Tamoko from another post
LIGHT ZONE
.................................................
L-2
MIL-J-5391
1945 ? -> 1950 ?
.................................................
L-2A
MIL-J-5391A (1950-03-13->1950-10-10)
sz 34->48 !!
.................................................
First L-2B 1952-01-17 "GREAT LAKES GARMENT MFG.CO."
MIL-J-7448 (17 Jan. -1952)
MIL-J-7448A (19 May. -1953)
MIL-J-7448B (16 May. -1955)
MIL-J-7448C ?
MIL-J-7448D ?
MIL-J-7448E ?
MIL-J-7448F ?
MIL-J-7448G (27 Apr. -1965)
MIL-J-7448H (20 Okt. -1965)
MIL-J-7448J (16 Apr. -1969)
MIL-J-7448K (15 Feb. -1979)
...................................................
1952-01-17->1953- ?- ?
1953-05-19->1955-05-16
?
?
?
?
1965-04-27->1965-10-20
1969-04-16->1976-04-01
1976-04-01->1979-02-15
.................................................
Intermediate
B-15
(1944-03-18-> 1944-10-06)
B-15A
(1944-11-03-> 1945-08-29)
B-15B
1945-08-29->?
B-15C
1950
B-15D
(1952-02-07-> 1953-01-13)
MA-1
Aero Medical Laboratory
Sub-Order R-666351-36
Date: 1954-15-04
But what i have found on Aer. Med. Lab. labels: On other Jackets (L-2A, L-2B) this label test sample is dated 1 year later after official mil. spec. document contract start date. So probably the official contract for MA-1 is 1953.
If you see cancelation date on B-15D 1953 it will be correct for MA-1.
MIL-J-8279
MIL-J-8279A
MIL-J-8279B
MIL-J-8279C (1960-10-14-> 1961-03-20)
MIL-J-8279D (1965-05-27-> 1965-09-10)
MIL-J-8279E (1963-09-05-> 1969-02-20)
MIL-J-8279F (1978-11-06-> 19??- ?- ?)
MIL-J-8279G (1978-11-06-> 1988-03-118)
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Jack, Full Gear is a different Japanese book.
See my reply, and a link, on the other thread ...
viewtopic.php?p=36202#p36202
jack aranda said:
Jack, Full Gear is a different Japanese book.
See my reply, and a link, on the other thread ...
viewtopic.php?p=36202#p36202
jack aranda
Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Greyhound52, David:
Thank you both for the info. SF's Japantown bookstore, Kinokuniya has been a source for Rin Tanaka's Freedamn books, and the Real McCoys Year Books on a regular basis. I'll bet they can scare up a copy of "Full Gear" for me. Looks like total eye candy. Thanks again.
I was at the Farmers' Market this morning. A retired Air Force pilot complimented me on my Cockpit B-15D. Knew the jacket, knew the company well, he said. Made my whole day.
Greyhound52, David:
Thank you both for the info. SF's Japantown bookstore, Kinokuniya has been a source for Rin Tanaka's Freedamn books, and the Real McCoys Year Books on a regular basis. I'll bet they can scare up a copy of "Full Gear" for me. Looks like total eye candy. Thanks again.
I was at the Farmers' Market this morning. A retired Air Force pilot complimented me on my Cockpit B-15D. Knew the jacket, knew the company well, he said. Made my whole day.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: Original B-15D MOD
'Full Gear' mentioned here ................
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3503
David, I agree with your sentiment about buying the book. Or Mr Aota-san will feel rightly wronged ! And as - if anybody - he is pretty much a collector-God, that would be spoiling things for one of our own. Hence the reason in my review I downgraded the pics I used.
J_H
'Full Gear' mentioned here ................
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3503
David, I agree with your sentiment about buying the book. Or Mr Aota-san will feel rightly wronged ! And as - if anybody - he is pretty much a collector-God, that would be spoiling things for one of our own. Hence the reason in my review I downgraded the pics I used.
J_H
greyhound52
New Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Well gang jacket arrived and wow is all I can say. At first look it really looked like the B-15D mod Buzz Rickson I had. If this isn't mint or almost mint then I don't know what is. Fit just like my Buzz B-15C mod size 40 so it is great. I will see if I can get some pictures of it.
Well gang jacket arrived and wow is all I can say. At first look it really looked like the B-15D mod Buzz Rickson I had. If this isn't mint or almost mint then I don't know what is. Fit just like my Buzz B-15C mod size 40 so it is great. I will see if I can get some pictures of it.
watchmanjimg
Well-Known Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD
Congrats, George! Sounds like you wound up with a good one there.
Congrats, George! Sounds like you wound up with a good one there.
greyhound52
New Member
Re: Original B-15D MOD (with new photos)
Here are my shots of this jacket. It is just about as mint as mint can be. I know it was never drycleaned and worn little if at all. The USAF decal is mint and the white star and USAF inside the jacket is rarely seen. I have one question this metal pen cap was in one of the small pockets on the side pocket. Never seen that (see the photo) Note also the color of the collar is different from the original knits just like on the BR B-15D mod I had.
Here are my shots of this jacket. It is just about as mint as mint can be. I know it was never drycleaned and worn little if at all. The USAF decal is mint and the white star and USAF inside the jacket is rarely seen. I have one question this metal pen cap was in one of the small pockets on the side pocket. Never seen that (see the photo) Note also the color of the collar is different from the original knits just like on the BR B-15D mod I had.
