Original B-15 Ben Greenholtz

[Geeboo]

Just acquired this all original B-15 by Ben Greenholtz in my size ! Very good condition IMO as an original piece with intact Mouton?? collar & that distincted mid-40's working Talon, very clean label, clear shoulder & inside flap stamp, original knits, intact lining - one of the very good conditioned original B-15 I have seen.
will get rid of the paint splash & add a patch I do myself.

 

[B-Man2]

Geeboo
When you start to get rid of the paint and splash please show us how you do that . I’ve never had a successful attempt at removing paint and would like to learn how to do it from you.
Thank you
B-Man2

 

[Geeboo]

It will be my 1st real attempt really; have done it B4 on less expensive clothing-result is ok, As B4 I will use acetone - what had surprised me is that acetone have not caused any discoloration of fabric on my previous attempts.

 

[falcon_ib]

Nice B-15! So many vets used their jackets and issued kit for painting after the war - very common to see paint splatters over everything from paratrooper uniforms to N-1's.

Love the 78th Fighter Squadron patch. Maybe consider some artwork on the back? I love this design and it's appropriate as the 15th Fighter Group was a unit within 7th Fighter Command.

The "Sun Setters VII" patch appears to have been used on flight jackets as well as on service coats:

Painted on heavy canvas, about 5-3/8" in width by 4" in height

Good luck!


Evan

 

[Geeboo]

I am indeed very interested to get it back painted. the problem is I want to use that snake 78FS patch that I think is quite well-made.
It seems that 78FS is stationed Hawaii around 1944-1945 & the Japanese temple gate pattern may not fit the scenario - I am not very sure about this. Can you suggest others that could match with 78FS chest patch ?
Tks
P.S. I also love this pattern because it is simpler to manage/ draw. Can you elaborate more on ...."as the 15th Fighter Group was a unit within 7th Fighter Command " ?

 

[falcon_ib]

They were stationed on Iwo Jima as part of the 15th Fighter Group, VII Fighter Command beginning in March 1945 flying VLR missions over Japan

http://hiavps.com/78th FS.htm

http://www.7thfighter.com/78th/planes/p51s.htm

 

[Geeboo]

Tks Falcon, I appreciate it very much. This pattern after I briefly study it makes quite a good match with 78FS & the whole scenario.
The original owners of this jacket must have known each other in war times.
That plane is P-51 I suppose ?

 

[Flightengineer]

Very interesting jacket. Congratulations! I saw this listing on eBay. I also join the waitings to see the cleaning result here.

 

[falcon_ib]

Yep by the time they got to Iwo they were equipped with P-51's (pictures not mine)

 

[Geeboo]

Tks Falcon.
I try to sketch P51 & found the the proportion & angle of pattern on the original jacket seems to be wrong and distorted . For example i found that no matter at what angle the 2 wings shall fall on a straight line - the original pattern has a V shape wing which is not possible + the rear portion of the plane is too short] And that the 2 jet engines under the wing is missing. The angle in the jkt should see the underside of the wing as it is turning so must see the jet engines.
Q: should I stick to a more realistic angle of turning & proportion OR just copycat - the same as the jacket ?

 

[falcon_ib]

I'd say that the realistic aircraft and elaborate artwork could have been done by civilian artists who lived near airfields and were paid to paint jackets, flight bags, nose art, etc. On Iwo Jima and the Pacific in general there weren't any civilian professional painters to follow the servicemen around, so drawings seem to be more crude. Of course servicemen who were former artists also contributed their talents in every theater.
What comes to mind is the simple B-24 illustrations I've seen on 43rd Bomb Group B-10s and B-15s but of course there are many exceptions even on remote Pacific islands. Note how the wings are tilted at a strange looking different angle than the fuselage:

On the other side of the coin, a professional Italian artist painted this beauty on a 47th Bomb Group B-10:

(no pictures are mine)

It's really up to you on which style of artwork you prefer. I personally would copy the original artwork, but it's your jacket and I'm sure you'll be happy with it no matter which direction you choose. Good luck!

Evan

 

[Greg Gale]

Wartime jacket art are often crude and look like kindergarten drawings, but that's the beauty of them. Photo realistic jacket art looks very inauthentic to me. They didn't have professional artists serving at each base. I imagine it went something like this:

- Hey Joe, I hear you're good with brushes, can you paint my jacket?
- I don't know about that, I painted houses and fences before the war.
- Come on, I know you can do it. I want a beautiful gal with big tits on the back of this A-2
- Oh well, I'll do it for a beer
....a little later...
- What did you do to my jacket?! Is that a girl or a contorted orangutan???!!

 

[Flightengineer]

Greg, yes of course most of them was quite primitive drawings, but there were also quite realistic back art images of pin up girls and just planes with the correct proportions drawn in isometric with shadows, etc. These pictures can be seen in the book Art of the Flight Jacket. B-26, P-51 etc. Guys who could draw well there also served

 

[Geeboo]

Just noted the 2 bullet like thing is not jet engines but an improvement of P51D over previous version in the addition of extra fuel tank for longer flight.
In this case, it is possible the flight in the pattern is not loaded with this extra fuel tank, just for leisure flight or short term flight = > that sounds reasonable too.

 

[Greg Gale]

Those external tanks were dropped as soon as they were engaged with enemy planes in order to reduce weight and drag.