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New soon to be launched Eastman Rough Wear 1401
- Thread starter Persimmon
- Start date
Steve27752
Well-Known Member
I thought it was a good fit AND I could streeetch it a bit :lol: :lol:
Persimmon said:Now Steve about these trade in's.
Are you really sure you want my Werber !!!
Happy days in the Duxford Sun.
I think I have mentioned this somewhere before, but I do think that feedback from the fraternity of nutters (sorry us VLJ nutters) is a vital thing.
Whilst each of us will have our own preferences for fit and hide, there is no getting away from what originals of these contracts look like. Wether our modern bodies fit them is another matter.
For many years, I was too fat in all the wrong places to wear an A-2. They are after all a very form-fitting jacket designed for flying. I think that John Chapman goes down the route of no compromise faithful replicas of the contracts. Each of his jackets is made to order (because we are all a lot different to 19/20 year old USAAF pilots) and his production numbers are therefore quite small.
Eastman make higher quantities but as a result it feels they have a more off-the-shelf (not custom made) replica compared to JC. They are still very good for those who want a jacket that looks the part and is well made. The new Irvin, the Buzz Nylon and cloth offerings are all giving us an increasingly wider choice of replicas. The price for all this? Mmm....
I think Eastman have obviously come in for more criticism of late because of JCs entry into the marketplace. This must be hard for Eastman, as we devoted few (this is still a small market after all) now have a new kid on the block to grab our attention. I cannot criticise any of JCs repros even if I tried really hard. I know a few people have had sizing issues and some have had problems with zips but no one seems to have any criticisms of his patterns or leathers. If Eastman jackets had stayed around the £450 mark then I don't think there would be much of a problem but now there is very little price difference.
Aero in Scotland seem to be below the radar on all this. I don't know why? Do they not feel any threat from their competitors?
Maybe Eastman have been caught on the hop and have quickly responded to the challenge by launching the warhorse hide and revised models. Maybe they have done this TOO quickly and therefore some of the detailing needs to be refined. I cannot remember Eastman showing a prototype jacket at a show to the public prior to Goodwear coming along. This shows they are at least trying and in the long run it is better for us.
Let's wait to see what happens next. Interesting times ahead I think!!!!
Whilst each of us will have our own preferences for fit and hide, there is no getting away from what originals of these contracts look like. Wether our modern bodies fit them is another matter.
For many years, I was too fat in all the wrong places to wear an A-2. They are after all a very form-fitting jacket designed for flying. I think that John Chapman goes down the route of no compromise faithful replicas of the contracts. Each of his jackets is made to order (because we are all a lot different to 19/20 year old USAAF pilots) and his production numbers are therefore quite small.
Eastman make higher quantities but as a result it feels they have a more off-the-shelf (not custom made) replica compared to JC. They are still very good for those who want a jacket that looks the part and is well made. The new Irvin, the Buzz Nylon and cloth offerings are all giving us an increasingly wider choice of replicas. The price for all this? Mmm....
I think Eastman have obviously come in for more criticism of late because of JCs entry into the marketplace. This must be hard for Eastman, as we devoted few (this is still a small market after all) now have a new kid on the block to grab our attention. I cannot criticise any of JCs repros even if I tried really hard. I know a few people have had sizing issues and some have had problems with zips but no one seems to have any criticisms of his patterns or leathers. If Eastman jackets had stayed around the £450 mark then I don't think there would be much of a problem but now there is very little price difference.
Aero in Scotland seem to be below the radar on all this. I don't know why? Do they not feel any threat from their competitors?
Maybe Eastman have been caught on the hop and have quickly responded to the challenge by launching the warhorse hide and revised models. Maybe they have done this TOO quickly and therefore some of the detailing needs to be refined. I cannot remember Eastman showing a prototype jacket at a show to the public prior to Goodwear coming along. This shows they are at least trying and in the long run it is better for us.
Let's wait to see what happens next. Interesting times ahead I think!!!!
bseal
Well-Known Member
Here's what happens next. . .
Bam!!!
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/R ... W1401P.jpg
It's like a secret war.
Bam!!!
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/R ... W1401P.jpg
It's like a secret war.
CBI
Well-Known Member
I think the above comments about ELC "trying" are fine however I have always wondered why the heck all repo makers with the exception of Good Wear just don't make a straight copy of an original. Quit "improving", no "concessions" just take an orginal jacket and duplicate it, fit and all and be done with it. Seeing as ELC makes stock sizes, what's the big deal since folks can exchange for another size. Why can't the "improved/modern" versions be the "exceptions" instead of most of the catalog? Besides, there are loads of Mall jacket A-2's for people who don't care for the details.
Again, ELC/Aero, etc. - just copy exactly as is - you have the darn originals right in front of you! :evil: :? :?:
Again, ELC/Aero, etc. - just copy exactly as is - you have the darn originals right in front of you! :evil: :?
:?:Exactly my sentiments too CBI, if only the would listen......(GW not included, the do their job)
On a side note, there was a guy some time ago (who's name shall not be spoken) that could not accept the Eastman Rough Wear collar because of 2 things. It has the wrong "swoop" and the absence of the little leather tabs on the press studs. Did Gary pick these little details up ?
On a side note, there was a guy some time ago (who's name shall not be spoken) that could not accept the Eastman Rough Wear collar because of 2 things. It has the wrong "swoop" and the absence of the little leather tabs on the press studs. Did Gary pick these little details up ?
Gary own a good range of original A2s so there is absolutely no reason why he can't replicate all the details as John Chapman does.
I have sold all my ELC A2s now except for the 1933 Werber which is a very fine jacket and quite different from all the other repros they do. Mine is made of grainy leather and is a perfect fit. I am planning on buying further repro A2s, but only from Good Wear.
I have sold all my ELC A2s now except for the 1933 Werber which is a very fine jacket and quite different from all the other repros they do. Mine is made of grainy leather and is a perfect fit. I am planning on buying further repro A2s, but only from Good Wear.
I have always liked Eastman and I continue to prefer the way their jackets fit my frame. It is laughable here how we go on about incorrect fits on non-tailored items and the fit ideal as banded about here has mutated into a freakish tight forearmed jacket that can only be squeezed on over a shirt and looks ridiculously small at worst, enough to provoke adverse comments from passers by in some cases. They cant be comfortable. People post on here saying wow nice jacket.. the jacket mostly is but crowing the emperors new clothes over a ludicrously undersized jacket helps no-one
how 'authentic' (boy have we created that misaprehension) does the fit need to be over a check shirt or t shirt matched only ever with vintage levis or chinos? If doing living history or reenactment then just as with the countless ww2 pics, the 'fit' is variable.
I was never a fan of the glass smooth jackets that proliferated in the ELC inventory through the late 90's to the ealy noughties however, I have sold two of their 'Aero' style jackets that both resisted ANY attempts to wear in ( I loved russet and red knit) and I applaud the closer to issue leather that they now utilise so that the pressure to hot water treat, abrade or otherwise try to fake age is reduced.
I think they are now overpricing to the point where a professional person such as I cannot justify continued purchases, I was generally good for one or more a year, Many many more like me will fel the same and the bottom my fall out of their repeat customer market a little, I sincerely hope not.. cost sadly is overtaking value though I hate to say it.
how 'authentic' (boy have we created that misaprehension) does the fit need to be over a check shirt or t shirt matched only ever with vintage levis or chinos? If doing living history or reenactment then just as with the countless ww2 pics, the 'fit' is variable.
I was never a fan of the glass smooth jackets that proliferated in the ELC inventory through the late 90's to the ealy noughties however, I have sold two of their 'Aero' style jackets that both resisted ANY attempts to wear in ( I loved russet and red knit) and I applaud the closer to issue leather that they now utilise so that the pressure to hot water treat, abrade or otherwise try to fake age is reduced.
I think they are now overpricing to the point where a professional person such as I cannot justify continued purchases, I was generally good for one or more a year, Many many more like me will fel the same and the bottom my fall out of their repeat customer market a little, I sincerely hope not.. cost sadly is overtaking value though I hate to say it.
Curahee said:
I hope any business you work for hasn't had to increase prices in the current climate. I resent the term 'idiots' used, they don't force you buy their jackets! It is more than obvious the general current feeling is 'buy a GW', that's cool but the increase in 'Eastman-bashing' is getting rather tedious, it at times goes beyond fair sensible feedback as this very post has proved. I just hope we find some nice VINTAGE jackets to discuss real soon!
A
Anonymous
Guest
How can a jacket be truly 'authentic' if it is made to measure ? It's all well and good carping on about stitch per inch count and and matching jackets with a colour chart but if your gonna go no compromise, then wear the ones that you can wear and those you don't have the body shape for, well, don't wear 'em cos you ain't being 'authentic'.
I imagine that the early ELC's were smoothe hides because the general public perception (and that includes the opinions that most people who collected jackets at that time ) were that for an expensive jacket, a flawless hide was needed. People didn't appreciate that it costs more nowadays to get a messed up looking hide than a flawless one. Perhaps we all assumed that the hides would wear into an original over time and found that to be wrong. We have all moved on from those times. We all know a lot more. Even the early GW hides were pretty poor. That's why so many GW owners keep upgrading. As long as the one you wear makes you happy, then good for you.
It would appear that some people on here are losing their objectivity. Perhaps they are pissed that their comments appear to be being ingnored when they are used to being listened to. Perhaps they are so self -centred that they assume that Gary is in the business of making jackets solely for the crem-de-la-creme of the VLJ forum and no-one else. How many people are active on here and how many jackets do they collectively buy ? It is nothing to how many ELC & Aero sell. They are catering for a discerning market but not one so OCD and perfection seeking as here. They have a business plan and a customer base. If they lose the chosen ones on here to JC, I doubt they'll lose sleep. And why should they ? Just how many jackets can John make in one year ? Who are we to tell ELC they MUST make the most authentic jackets ? Especially when some people on here are now saying they would never buy another ELC jacket as only GW will do. There's encouragement for someone to want to improve !!
If you want a cheap car - buy a Fiat. A mid range sir ? Then a BMW or Merc'. A high end for you sir ? Then an Aston etc. Why so some people believe that everyone must make only 1942 out of a box. If JC has the gold medal, great. ELC can have the silver and Aero the bronze. What's the problem ?
There's room for EVERY maker, every budget and every opinion on fit, authenticity etc,etc. What worries me is the tendancy to persecute anyone who does not hold the most popular (or should that be most vocal or most patriotic) opinion.
It's not healthy.
Jeez, we are only talking about repros !
Dave (tin hat donned and looking forward to the discussion this post brings )
I imagine that the early ELC's were smoothe hides because the general public perception (and that includes the opinions that most people who collected jackets at that time ) were that for an expensive jacket, a flawless hide was needed. People didn't appreciate that it costs more nowadays to get a messed up looking hide than a flawless one. Perhaps we all assumed that the hides would wear into an original over time and found that to be wrong. We have all moved on from those times. We all know a lot more. Even the early GW hides were pretty poor. That's why so many GW owners keep upgrading. As long as the one you wear makes you happy, then good for you.
It would appear that some people on here are losing their objectivity. Perhaps they are pissed that their comments appear to be being ingnored when they are used to being listened to. Perhaps they are so self -centred that they assume that Gary is in the business of making jackets solely for the crem-de-la-creme of the VLJ forum and no-one else. How many people are active on here and how many jackets do they collectively buy ? It is nothing to how many ELC & Aero sell. They are catering for a discerning market but not one so OCD and perfection seeking as here. They have a business plan and a customer base. If they lose the chosen ones on here to JC, I doubt they'll lose sleep. And why should they ? Just how many jackets can John make in one year ? Who are we to tell ELC they MUST make the most authentic jackets ? Especially when some people on here are now saying they would never buy another ELC jacket as only GW will do. There's encouragement for someone to want to improve !!
If you want a cheap car - buy a Fiat. A mid range sir ? Then a BMW or Merc'. A high end for you sir ? Then an Aston etc. Why so some people believe that everyone must make only 1942 out of a box. If JC has the gold medal, great. ELC can have the silver and Aero the bronze. What's the problem ?
There's room for EVERY maker, every budget and every opinion on fit, authenticity etc,etc. What worries me is the tendancy to persecute anyone who does not hold the most popular (or should that be most vocal or most patriotic) opinion.
It's not healthy.
Jeez, we are only talking about repros !
Dave (tin hat donned and looking forward to the discussion this post brings
)A price increase in this climate would mean loss of business, there's only room for a small inflation correction of perhaps 3% and maybe a 1-2% cost increase, Eastman has increased the price of their RW jackets with 35%. I think they will "revamp" more jacket so they can justify increasing the prices of all the original maker jackets.
I apoligize for the term idiots and you're right that they don't force me to buy anything.
As you should know I've always stood up or ELC in the past and I own/have owned 6 jackets from ELC and only one GW jacket. I am not bashing just making a point about the IMO enormous price increase. I liked and stil like Eastman jackets but it seems strange to me that a little revampin' justifies a price increase of 35%
I apoligize for the term idiots and you're right that they don't force me to buy anything.
As you should know I've always stood up or ELC in the past and I own/have owned 6 jackets from ELC and only one GW jacket. I am not bashing just making a point about the IMO enormous price increase. I liked and stil like Eastman jackets but it seems strange to me that a little revampin' justifies a price increase of 35%
havocpaul said:
Roughwear said:
To clarify, I have owned every ELC original maker A2 but am just getting more discerning where repros are concerned. ELC make great jackets but comparing them with my collection of originals they are not as close as the current crop of GWs. Unless Gary launches a new original maker jacket I really can't see why I should buy an A2 from ELC. Their prices are now similar to GW and the jackets are not as accurate. But there are many whose prime consideration is not accuracy and that's fine. The re-launched RW 27752 is a nice jacket and the new 1401-P is interesting, but I own wearable originals from both contracts so I really can't justify buying either A2 from ELC. GW makes a wider range of repro A2s than ELC and there are several which are tempting.
