New Aero B-10

[Pilot]

I guess that member must be me I cannot comment on the other makers but I still like the ELC B-15/15a and their lining... Very warm in a light weight shell and therefor great jackets for any outside activities that require ease of movement while still keeping one warm...

no not you...ELC B-10 not B-15...sorry for the confusion.

 

[Griffon_301]

No worries

 

[Technonut2112]

According to HPA's BR B-10 specs, the USAAF B-10's lining was an alpaca / wool blend, and double-faced. RM also states similar info about their B-10 repros. I have seen no other official government specs to the contrary. I do know that while looking good, Eastman's RW B-10's are made with a single-faced lining (the lining material on only one side, not both), and are not as warm as the double-faced lining. I ended up selling the one I had because of this. If anyone has official B-10 documentation / specs to post, it would be interesting to see. I have seen a pic of an original B-10 with the lining torn open, and indeed the lining looked to be double-faced.

Correct USAAF spec. inner lining of warm, double-faced alpaca and wool, dyed to match the salt-and-pepper coloring of the original vintage B-10s.

The gray alpaca-and-wool lining is the correct double-faced type with a fabulous match in shade and feel of hand to extant vintage examples.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

The Alpaca Lining Aero uses costs more that all the materials and components for the rest of the jacket put together

 

[Griffon_301]

I own a BR N-1 and was always under the impression that the alpaca lining in that jacket seems to be thicker and a tad warmer than in the B-15s... Could that be the reason? (Single/double sided alpaca lining)

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

According to HPA's BR B-10 specs, the USAAF B-10's lining was an alpaca / wool blend, and double-faced.

Alpaca was in fairly common use in the US Civilian market during the 30s-50s
I've yet to see one labelled "Wool Blend", always seem to say "Imported Pure Alpaca Wool" or similar
We get ours already woven direct from Peru, never been offered a "blend". I imagine "blends" are woven elsewhere (China?) using some Alpaca Wool

 

[Technonut2112]

Alpaca was in fairly common use in the US Civilian market during the 30s-50s
I've yet to see one labelled "Wool Blend", always seem to say "Imported Pure Alpaca Wool" or similar
We get ours already woven direct from Peru, never been offered a "blend". I imagine "blends" are woven elsewhere (China?) using some Alpaca Wool

I don't believe I've seen the materials listed on an original B-10 label...

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I own a BR N-1 and was always under the impression that the alpaca lining in that jacket seems to be thicker and a tad warmer than in the B-15s... Could that be the reason? (Single/double sided alpaca lining)

I own a BR N-1 and was always under the impression that the alpaca lining in that jacket seems to be thicker and a tad warmer than in the B-15s... Could that be the reason? (Single/double sided alpaca lining)

Possibly but more likely a heavier weight, there are various weight options available and this sort of cloth, like wool, can be weaved from fairly fine suiting to overcoat weight......for those of us who can't afford Vicuna

 

[Micawber]

Original B15 that was worn in combat by a vet friend of mine, split seam showing double faced lining...

 

[Pilot]

According to HPA's BR B-10 specs, the USAAF B-10's lining was an alpaca / wool blend, and double-faced. RM also states similar info about their B-10 repros. I have seen no other official government specs to the contrary. I do know that while looking good, Eastman's RW B-10's are made with a single-faced lining (the lining material on only one side, not both), and are not as warm as the double-faced lining. I ended up selling the one I had because of this. If anyone has official B-10 documentation / specs to post, it would be interesting to see. I have seen a pic of an original B-10 with the lining torn open, and indeed the lining looked to be double-faced.

Yes BR = Alpaga (small %? Woll large %?) blend... but not 100% Alpaga as it should be or as RMcC´s & Aero....Touch and Feeling are totally different...

 

[Technonut2112]

Yes BR = Alpaga (small %? Woll large %?) blend... but not 100% Alpaga as it should be or as RMcC´s & Aero....Touch and Feeling are totally different...

I've seen RM listings stating the same alpaca / wool blend, not 100 % alpaca... Do you have the official government specs to post?

 

[Technonut2112]

I have a RM / The Few 'The Paul Reed Company' B-10 repro, and the lining feels similar to my BR's when touched.

EDIT: LOL! I can't believe I'm actually running the linings of my B-10's through my fingers trying to make a comparison.. Crazy hobby at times...

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I don't believe I've seen the materials listed on an original B-10 label...

I was talking about Civilian market clothing, pretty obviously thats where the AAF got the idea for Alpaca as a lining from, it had been in use for a good ten years before the B-10 was introduced?

PS I don't recall any military jacket labels that state any content

 

[Technonut2112]

That's what the mystery is until official government contract specs are unearthed.. Apparently, various specialized repro makers state that the government specs were both alpaca and wool for the lining. Kind of makes sense as a cost-reduction option for wartime production....

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

That's what the mystery is until official government contract specs are unearthed.. Apparently, various specialized repro makers state that the government specs were both alpaca and wool for the lining. Kind of makes sense as a cost-reduction option for wartime production....

Possibly............hard to tell by touch after all these years
On the other hand the USAAF we hardly shy or scrimping with the pennies/bucks when it came to kitting out the troops, top grade stuff not the like the crap our Tommies had to wear

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

From my experience of these types of cloth, I've tried to calculate the warmth factor
Assuming the warmest merits 100 the here's my rough appraisal/rating

Vicuna 100
Alpaca 85
Cashmere 55
Wool 35

If you trust my ratings and know the percentage of any blends of these it should be relatively easy to calculate a "warmth factor" rating
If I'm doing it right a 50% Alpaca and 50% wool Blend would work out at 59 as opposed to 85 for pure Alpaca

 

[Technonut2112]

I don't recall seeing the percentage of alpaca / wool listed which is considered to be 'correct' to the government specs used in repros said to know them... It would be interesting to see the actual documentation..

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

That would probably be due to Alpaca NOT being the majority of the content
It's amazing what folk try these days
A few years ago I bought an overcoat in a charity shop, label read "Cashmere & Wool" maker was Crombie, a high grade company, all sounds Kosher?
So I thought until I got home and read the actual content label in the pocket 1% Cashmere 99% Wool
Just because "Alpaca" is the first word that means little without knowing the mix.
Slightly off topic but relevant
For a Dog Food to have an actual Meat Type as the biggest font on the label, the amount of that content Lamb/Beef/Whatever only needs to exceed 4%

 

[Terry le Pirat]

Hi all, regarding the lining, Sweeting's "Combat Flying Clothing" (i do not know how accurate this is) states the B-10 is lined with a"50/50 alpaca-and-wool-pile fabric". He also states double-face alpaca was one of the changes recommended to be introduced with the B-15.
My original Ben Greenholz B-11jacket states on the label "Alpaca & wool lining", and is certanly single pile since the lining is open at the rear lower end.
When comparing this, and the lining in several A-9 trousers with the feel and thickness of my two BR B-10's, it sure feels very similar, both thickness and softness, not very scientific i know, but at least that is my observations. Don't feel like cutting a hole in neither my BR B-10's nor my A-9 trousers

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Hi all, regarding the lining, Sweeting's "Combat Flying Clothing" (i do not know how accurate this is) states the B-10 is lined with a"50/50 alpaca-and-wool-pile fabric". He also states double-face alpaca was one of the changes recommended to be introduced with the B-15.
My original Ben Greenholz B-11jacket states on the label "Alpaca & wool lining", and is certanly single pile since the lining is open at the rear lower end.
When comparing this, and the lining in several A-9 trousers with the feel and thickness of my two BR B-10's, it sure feels very similar, both thickness and softness, not very scientific i know, but at least that is my observations. Don't feel like cutting a hole in neither my BR B-10's nor my A-9 trousers

Sounds reasonable.......... Sweeting is a lot better reference across the board than many less critisised sources
Aero will continue using 100% Alpaca as The Barnstormer is the specific style we buy the cloth for, consider the B-10 a by product who's lining suffers an upgrade

Oh Dear, more ammunition for the regular snippers who don't appreciate improvements!