Mouton

[Micawber]

I wish there was a Snowflake emogi. I feel trauma coming on.

Now take some deep breaths, I will fetch you a beaker of water and a blanket then we can go to our safe area and I will hand you over to one of our friendly specialists. Be right back...

 

[mulceber]

Going back to the original discussion, it seems like the cause for dispute is that a bunch of Eastman jackets that should have mouton collars appear to have sheepskin (that is, the fibers are curly when they should be straight), while others very clearly are mouton. On original jackets that (of course) had mouton, the fibers started out straight, but as the pilot wore them, heat and moisture had the effect of making the fibers curl up again, especially around the neck where the fur collar was most in contact with the pilot's skin.

This is just a hypothesis about what's going on with Eastman and their collars, but hear me out:

I think Eastman has a treatment process for their mouton to make it look like it's been heavily used - I imagine giving it a few spritzes with a spray bottle of water and a tumble in the dryer on warm would do the trick. This would be a neat way to simulate the effects of being worn by a pilot in a high-moisture environment, but it has a couple problems:

• sometimes the mouton "withstands it" and the result is that the collar basically looks brand new - see this jacket that @warguy posted in another thread.
• Other times, the treatment works TOO well, the hairs on the mouton become uniformly curly, and the whole collar starts to look like Sheepskin - see this jacket as an example.

I don't really have any proof of this position, but it would neatly explain the discrepancies we're seeing, and it's an explanation that doesn't reflect badly on Eastman.

 

[John Lever]

I can vouch for this Jan. I have a piece of sheepskin from the SFAD B3...wow ! Amazing straight shiny fleece, so beautiful. Sadly the jackets are washed after construction. This IMO ruins them, the fleece turns into fluff almost like dull cotton wool. I have ruined jackets like this after buying them used and very dirty.
Here is the fleece.

fleece in question .

 

[Dumpster D]

I will hand you over to one of our friendly specialists.

"Ah, Juicy fruit."

 

[Micawber]

Thank you Jan & John.

 

[ZuZu]

Going back to the original discussion, it seems like the cause for dispute is that a bunch of Eastman jackets that should have mouton collars appear to have sheepskin (that is, the fibers are curly when they should be straight), while others very clearly are mouton. On original jackets that (of course) had mouton, the fibers started out straight, but as the pilot wore them, heat and moisture had the effect of making the fibers curl up again, especially around the neck where the fur collar was most in contact with the pilot's skin.

This is just a hypothesis about what's going on with Eastman and their collars, but hear me out:

I think Eastman has a treatment process for their mouton to make it look like it's been heavily used - I imagine giving it a few spritzes with a spray bottle of water and a tumble in the dryer on warm would do the trick. This would be a neat way to simulate the effects of being worn by a pilot in a high-moisture environment, but it has a couple problems:

• sometimes the mouton "withstands it" and the result is that the collar basically looks brand new - see this jacket that @warguy posted in another thread.
• Other times, the treatment works TOO well, the hairs on the mouton become uniformly curly, and the whole collar starts to look like Sheepskin - see this jacket as an example.

I don't really have any proof of this position, but it would neatly explain the discrepancies we're seeing, and it's an explanation that doesn't reflect badly on Eastman.

Don't know why things have to be so convoluted. I agree that some Eastman mouton looks like worn mouton and is actually pretty good. Don't see why that would be on a new jacket. I'ts hit and miss with them- some stuff looks great but some looks pretty bad- greyish brown washed out looking. Don't see why we need to explain in a way that's "nice".

 

[mulceber]

Don't know why things have to be so convoluted.

I don't think it's convoluted at all. Rather simple really - same treatment having different results in different cases.

I agree that some Eastman mouton looks like worn mouton and is actually pretty good. Don't see why that would be on a new jacket.

I'd also rather it looked new out of the box. But to judge by Eastman's Great Escape jacket, and by the existence of their 50 cal collection, some people want their jacket to look like an antique out of the box.

 

[Micawber]

I don't think it's convoluted at all. Rather simple really - same treatment having different results in different cases.

I'd also rather it looked new out of the box. But to judge by Eastman's Great Escape jacket, and by the existence of their 50 cal collection, some people want their jacket to look like an antique out of the box.

But they sell so there is a demand.

 

[mulceber]

Yep, exactly.

 

[Skyhawk]

In case you missed it, all the USN G-1 series jacket specs call for Mouton for the collars except the 55J14. This contract specifies "SHEEP SHEARLING". The Cagleco G-1 in my collection had black curly shearling that was obviously never in Mouton form. it is sheep's wool, not lamb mouton. This spec seems to explain why.

 

[galvestonokie]

Having been in the sheep/wool business some time ago, here are some thoughts:

Mouton, like used for USN jackets, was produced in this way: with mouton in mind, lambs are short slick at an early age. During their growth period, the wool grows back in a uniform fashion and length. When the lambs were harvested, the wool/mouton is uniform in length (especially near the lamb's back) and ready for processing/dye application. The early clipping/shearing causes regrowth wool to be mostly uniform in length.

Regarding the variation: one factor is that, the wool is not idential all over the same pelt, especially in texture. Generally, the further down the pelt you go toward the belly, the curlier the mouton. not wanting to waste, these lower quality areas of the pelt were used. Incidentally, this is the same notion in leather from cattle: the highest quality leather is on the back and sides. Belly leather tends to be thinner, stretchier, and generally of lower quality. this is why the variation you see on the texture of cowhide flight jackets.

there are massive differences in the composure--length and thickness of wool fibers, especially among different breeds of sheep. Fine wool breeds are generally used for clothing. Medium wool is generally used for mouton, carpet. Mohair is quite fine and comes from goats.

Hope this adds something Rob

 

[Spitfireace]

Also a Ralph Edwards from 1965.

 

[bfd70]

Couldnt find anywhere else to post this. From “Piece of cake.”
a work of fiction but i found it interesting.
anyone ever heard of this?