Modern German Flieger Jacke

[Pilot]

Dear @Wholenineyards, would you say that this one is a genuine Bundeswehr (Luftwaffe) jacket? I've recently found it at a local vendor...and he's asking €210. It looks like an '83 issued jacket.
Thanks in advance for your help!

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Yes 100% legit!

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Dear @Wholenineyards, would you say that this one is a genuine Bundeswehr (Luftwaffe) jacket? I've recently found it at a local vendor...and he's asking €210. It looks like an '83 issued jacket.
Thanks in advance for your help!

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a nice example,congratulations

 

[Oscar71]

Yes 100% legit!

Danke! Would you say it's a fair price?

 

[Hazayad]

And the unit this was with is the Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen" flying F-4F Phantom II at the time.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Danke! Would you say it's a fair price?

If no stains or damage on knits and liner. ( or minor/tiny damage ) And when I was hunting those jacket, yours size was rarely seen.

 

[Pilot]

Danke! Would you say it's a fair price?

Slightly on the high end since patched…
The highest scores and prices go for the unpatched ( except the shoulder flags ) and size 10.

 

[Hazayad]

"Horses for courses..." I would rate 'patched' higher - but that's just me - and the size becomes a factor when wearing it is intended. So price is a tad high but not outrageous and the above mentioned caveats apply (i.e. clean and your size if you want to wear it).

 

[Pilot]

"Horses for courses..." I would rate 'patched' higher - but that's just me - and the size becomes a factor when wearing it is intended. So price is a tad high but not outrageous and the above mentioned caveats apply (i.e. clean and your size if you want to wear it).

All discussable… thats why we are here..
A) its velcroed and not patched as such…
B) the Richthofen patch is not an issued one but a “ private purchase “…
C) the velcro patches are not legit to this 83’ jacket..In 83’ ( I was part of it ) all was stiched not velcroed….. name tags were blue and in 2cm width strap shape….so its a good jacket but ruined by fonky decorations..sorry!

 

[Hazayad]

A '83 made jacket worn after '83 - wouldn't call it 'fonky decorations' as it might just have been updated at the STOV with nametag and unit velcro - as many were in the late 80s and 90s. But you know that, I am sure. Best is always to have provenance to understand what it's life has been - saves one from the second-guessing pitfalls.

 

[Pilot]

A '83 made jacket worn after '83 - wouldn't call it 'fonky decorations' as it might just have been updated at the STOV with nametag and unit velcro - as many were in the late 80s and 90s. But you know that, I am sure. Best is always to have provenance to understand what it's life has been - saves one from the second-guessing pitfalls.

How many years did you serve in the Bundeswehr/Bundesluftwaffe?

 

[Hazayad]

What's a Bundesluftwaffe?

 

[Hazayad]

The answer is 0 days - proud para and not old enough for that to mean Luftwaffe. ;-)

 

[Pilot]

What's a Bundesluftwaffe?

Your question is an answer on your post No. 89.
Bundesluftwaffe is the official terminology of the post WW2 Luftwaffe.

 

[Pilot]

The answer is 0 days - proud para and not old enough for that to mean Luftwaffe. ;-)

Perfect!: Respect and Honor for the Paras and Fallschirmjäger….you answered it all. Thankyou.

 

[Oscar71]

Thanks for your kind replies dear friends. I ended up purchasing the jacket for €170. I think it's a fair price, given the overall great condition of the leather, cuffs, waistband and zippers. I'm happy! It was a VERY long search and it fits like a glove, as it would have been made for me.
As for the "funky" velcros and patches, to be honest they look rather cool, but definitely I will replace them, so I'd like to ask to @Pilot if there's a source to buy the proper ones that belongs to the date and kind issued by the Bundesluftwaffe? How does the real issued JG71 "Richtofen" patch looks like? Also, I've seen some nametags with red or blue background color and the F-4F Phantom II silhouette above the pilot name. Is there any place to find them?
Thanks again for your valuable help!

 

[Pilot]

Hello Oskar.
Basically the jacket you have is 101% legit…The only fiction are the velcros… on the wrong side btw as well .. as you can recon.
I received my blue /white name strap from the furrier ( the quater master ).
The patches were donated from your new team when you were assigned to join it… no idea where they had them made.
Anyway, I will ask arround and come back to you in PM mode
Habe die Ehre
BWF
( OL49)

Edit, note the correct JG71 patch , correct position/place on the pilot on your example.

 

[Wholenineyards]

The gentleman in flight suit seems to be the wing flight surgeon, by his brevet on the right chest. Smoking of course, as most flight surgeons. Open zippers and unclosed jacket in true aviation fashion, too. He holds the rank of Oberfeldarzt and may even be Jet Passenger rated, meaning he's cleared to accompany the pilot in the back seat of the aircraft. Just like in any other NATO service the Luftwaffe has had a very limited number of pilot/ surgeons. This gentleman, as per his brevet, is not one of them, he is purely the flight surgeon of JG 71. Speaking of brevets and patches. I wouldn't argue too much about the position and fixation mode of patches. Too many common variations. The Luftwaffe's administrative operation mode is as a Wing. Not as a squadron, as in the RAF, or the USN, or the FAA, where the squadron is the smallest functioning element including admin, maintenance, training and flight crews. The German armed forces' smallest operating element is the wing (Geschwader/ or Regiment in the German Army). It is headed by an Oberst (Colonel), or, in case of the Marineflieger, a Navy Captain, NATO grade OF-5 (US paygrade O-6). This equivalates to German paygrade A-16, with a mere 2nd Lieutenant/ Ensign (Leutnant or Leutnant zur See) being grouped into A-9.
An unsolicited word on funcion/ specialty badges or brevets/ wings. German regulation requires those in metal or fabric form to be attached on the right side of the uniform. I am not a fan of this as such badges should be worn left, over the heart. In my ignorant opinion. Many, if not most German pilots receive(d) their flight training in USA/ GB/ CAN, some in France. The first three award the aviation brevets to the left side, as I find it correct. The FAA, in contrast, awards their wings to the left sleeve, a very, very classy solution I always found. Attached is a story of German student pilots being winged at the UK Forces Central Flying School in Shawbury. After course completion British army aviator wings are awarded to the Heeresflieger representatives, the RAF wings are awarded to the Luftwaffe helicopter pilots. After that the rather nondescript German wings are added by the German senior representative, all on the right side!!! I should have objected, at least on the day of the reception of wings they should be pinned on the side of the country providing the training.
Here's the link: https://www.forcesnews.com/operations/germany/german-graduates-receive-british-wings-raf-shawbury

By the way the requirement in the German Navy states: 'Das Verbandsabzeichen ist auf dem rechten Arm des Flugdienstanzuges zu führen.' The patch of the unit is to be worn on the left upper arm on the flight suit. Verband is a unit of regiment and upwards. Marinefliegergeschwader 3 GRAF ZEPPELIN and Marinefliegergeschwader 5 are colocated at Naval Air Station Nordholz, north of Bremen at the Elbe river estuary. Seldom are they worn, though, as per instruction. Too many other supposedly 'cool' patches are around in all military, with a major patch inflation going on. 3 [Lynx] Naval Air Squadron of NAW 5 make it a point as seen in many pictures to wear their squadron patch on the right chest with the name tag/ wings velcroed on the left chest. The Luftwaffe, or as 'Pilot' called it, Bundesluftwaffe, always used to fix their Wing patch on this weird position on the gray flight jacket's right side with the vertical zip being in the way... but even that procedure has been eroded now with the green ugly nomex/ goretex jackets. Wings and name tags are velcroed left and whatever patch is favoured by the individual is worn right chest and right arm. Gray leather flight jackets are now mostly exclusively worn by maintenance/ technical personnel.

Hope it wasn't too much japping on a Monday.

Greetz, W

 

[Hazayad]

@Wholenineyards , correct. Thanks for clarifying. ("Bundesluftwaffe" indeed For what it's worth - not much according to one - I would not change anything an your jacket, @Oscar71. Wear it in good health.

 

[Oscar71]

Mr @Pilot and @Wholenineyards I really appreciate your insights on this particular and fascinating subject. So much interesting info and details are very welcomed, indeed!
It'a very regrettable that the gray leather jackets were replaced by those Nomex/Goretex ones. The more I contemplate mine, the more I feel it's a class of its own. I feel really lucky that I ended up finding one!
I'll try to make better pics of it with natural light, as I find its color/hue highly variable according to the source of light.
Have a great week mates!

 

[Erwin]

There is currently one at ASOS