John Lever
Moderator
We were on Messenger.
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missing link?
- Thread starter Silver Surfer
- Start date
Carl
Well-Known Member
On here ???Some pompous & serious minded people ( who have no sense of humour ) looked a bit foolish. It was worth it for that
noooo???
Nickb123
Well-Known Member
Well, this is a shame. As a non-expert but aficionado, this jacket had me genuinely interested nonetheless. There I was, trying to find original Switlik documents on my university's digital library LOL. These jacket mysteries are to me the most entertaining things going on here. Back to looking for an ANJ-3 with a military tag I guess or the Goldsmith thread...
I imagine several of us learned a thing or two about Switlik the company; not a completely meaningless thread!
I imagine several of us learned a thing or two about Switlik the company; not a completely meaningless thread!
CoopDog
Active Member
Yes. I googled Switlik And now I’m getting pop up ads for their current products. LOL. They were a major player in the parachute industry when there was a parachute shortage. Whether or not they ever bid on an A-2 contract, my guess would be that the government preferred them to focus on manufacturing parachutes and nothing else.
bazelot
Well-Known Member
Whoaa this thing went downhill very fast. Not much due process... At this stage this is all just speculation and what DD is putting forward is also just speculation. Maybe the jacket is doctored, maybe Victor bought it in good faith and didn't know it was tampered with, maybe it is indeed a missing link, maybe it's a Goodwear (and that's a joke in case anyone takes it the wrong way), maybe the North Koreans put it together, maybe maybe maybe... The fact is that some of us are playing judge, jury and executioners and are relishing it and it is a bit disturbing. I joined this forum 12 years ago to learn and not many original members are posting and the whole site has lost it's appeal frankly but in light of what is going on in this thread i understand why.
Dany McDonald
Well-Known Member
A newbie to collecting and identifying here, so take this with a grain of salt...
I was perplexed with the negativity, felt here, in the last stretch of 2019. This post by Victor really pleased me with the synergy, reading and learning from members freely sharing their thoughts about his jacket, just having fun. I even almost shared an observation, happy I didn't.
May I ask why all this bitterness, wedged here and there...
Just a thought by the way... Nothing between the lines.
Dany
I was perplexed with the negativity, felt here, in the last stretch of 2019. This post by Victor really pleased me with the synergy, reading and learning from members freely sharing their thoughts about his jacket, just having fun. I even almost shared an observation, happy I didn't.
May I ask why all this bitterness, wedged here and there...
Just a thought by the way... Nothing between the lines.
Dany
jeremiah
Well-Known Member
Often this is the case yet the ones who cite this still remain to add their opinions. Why? Not an attack but a curiosity really. If you have lost the appeal then why remain even as a lurker? I never do get these reasons. Guess I’m just daft.
Danny, I get ya man. If this is all it takes to piss off some people, they really are fortunate to live such a sheltered existence. Plenty of stuff in life to stress about. This ain’t one of them.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
As a new member, your question is certainly justified, however It would take a long response to give you a complete perspective of what seems to have caused some of the bitterness you described. Suffice it to say that there are a few people here, who have had their cornflakes pissed on by a few other people and hard feelings remain. That really sums it up as briefly as possible.
Cheers
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Lots of long time members of discussion boards quite often lament the "good, old days" back when things were all milk and honey. But all fora and discussion boards change and evolve over time, that's the very nature of them, I suppose that's the nature of everything. I joined up here in 2008 and it has changed here but then the vintage leather jacket market has changed since then too.
Dany McDonald
Well-Known Member
B-man, thank you for bringing this perspective. Sadly, too often I've see this type of discord, filter in way on informative/sharing forums like this one. It's human nature, just like at the corner of the street...
You guys dont realized how deep and fun this VLJ is for someone like me. I find answers everyday in old and new treads, not joking.
Dany
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Dany, just my advice...
Enjoy what you like on here and filter out the BS. For the most part, the vast majority of guys (and gals) on here are good sorts. As with any group of people though disagreements and arguments arise. For the most part they're harmless, a few members have a good old rant at one another, occasionally the shit hits the fan and egos are hurt but it all passes.
Like a lot of specialised hobbies you get the odd wanker who is so blinkered in his opinions about the smallest details (that's the nature of specialist subjects), that he'll throw a fit if anyone holds something nearing an opposing opinion but thankfully those types are few and far between and usually get kicked off in short order.
It's a funny old thing to be interested in but this little part of the interweb is actually one of the best places to visit if you have that interest in vintage leather (and especially flying) jackets.
Just enjoy and disregard the bulldust.
DiamondDave
Well-Known Member
Gents,
Though my post was set up as a yarn, a tale if you will, it is not speculation. All facts, but I cannot speak to the motivation of anyone as to WHY it was done. Suffice to say, this is a modified Rough Wear period.
DD
Though my post was set up as a yarn, a tale if you will, it is not speculation. All facts, but I cannot speak to the motivation of anyone as to WHY it was done. Suffice to say, this is a modified Rough Wear period.
DD
33-1729
Well-Known Member
It's great that Roughwear is back!
For the jacket, many are going off the assumption that a label is required for every test sample, but that isn't true. A test sample isn't necessarily needed for a contract at all.
With a doctored label from a pair of trousers, and apparently added zipper pull, this implies clear intent to deceive.
Both the Talon and Hookless name were used on zipper pulls between 1928 (when Talon was introduced) and 1932 (when the Hookless name was dropped). I've seen this zipper pull on flight suits, but the 1932 SAT A-2 and 1933 Werber zipper only show the Talon name (M-32 Talon No. 7 zipper on both).
Double-stitched pockets point to a private purchase (lots of flight instructors at Wright Patterson) and not a military A-2 contract. Double-stitched pockets were proven by a paper trail to be only on the cowhide 1943 Australian V505 A-2, as no 31-1897 Goldsmith jackets have survived for inspection (we believe we found one from photographic inspection, but that is only an assumption).
Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
33-1729
Well-Known Member
FYI ...
Switlik Parachute & Equipment Co. created four (4) items under contract W535 AC-5515 according to Aota Mituhiro in Full Gear. The items are A-1 & A-2 trousers and B-1 & B-2 flight jackets. Note Switlik placed the appropriate drawing number on the respective label(s), so if Switlik did make an A-2 jacket under this contract it would have had the correct drawing number on the label (it doesn't). Example labels with references are below.
CONTRACT W535 AC 5515
=======================
DWG. NO. 31-2410 = B-1 jacket
DWG. NO. 31-2411 = A-1 trousers
DWG. NO. 31-2412 = B-2 jacket
DWG. NO. 31-2413 = A-2 trousers
B-1 Flight Jacket (as noted by Nickb123 in post #78)
A-1 Flight Trousers
stumptown-traders.blogspot.com
B-2 Flight Jacket (as noted by saucerfriend in post #79)
www.worthpoint.com
A-2 Flight Trousers (as noted by Roughwear in post #15)
Switlik Parachute & Equipment Co. created four (4) items under contract W535 AC-5515 according to Aota Mituhiro in Full Gear. The items are A-1 & A-2 trousers and B-1 & B-2 flight jackets. Note Switlik placed the appropriate drawing number on the respective label(s), so if Switlik did make an A-2 jacket under this contract it would have had the correct drawing number on the label (it doesn't). Example labels with references are below.
CONTRACT W535 AC 5515
=======================
DWG. NO. 31-2410 = B-1 jacket
DWG. NO. 31-2411 = A-1 trousers
DWG. NO. 31-2412 = B-2 jacket
DWG. NO. 31-2413 = A-2 trousers
B-1 Flight Jacket (as noted by Nickb123 in post #78)
A-1 Flight Trousers
WW2 A-1 Horsehide Flight Pants by Switlik Parachute & Equipment Company
Before the advent of the pressurized cabin, early military pilots would have to do some serious bundling to survive to sub-zero temperatu...
stumptown-traders.blogspot.com
B-2 Flight Jacket (as noted by saucerfriend in post #79)
Vintage 1930's PRE 40's WW2 U.S. ARMY AIR CORPS B-2 Leather Bomber Jacket Sz 40 | #536266580
This Is NOT A Reproduction. RARE Original 1930's Pre-WW2 Era U.S. ARMY AIR CORPS Type B-2 Leather Bomber Jacket! I Believe It Was Made In The Early To Mid-1930's Era. Made By The Switlik Parachute & E
www.worthpoint.com
A-2 Flight Trousers (as noted by Roughwear in post #15)
Maverickson
Well-Known Member
Hi All,
From the beginning I had an interest in this thread. Moreover, I own an original Switlik jacket. Only in this case, my jacket is not imagined nor contrived.
My jacket is a pre War type M-422 that was made for the USN. Since that jacket''s contract was such a relatively unknown I took it upon myself to substantiate it's existence.
Through my own initiative I found that Switlik delivered something under 250 jackets to the USN during the first quarter of 1941. All according to the records I found through my research done at the National Archives in Washington DC.
Currently, I'm restoring that size 40 original M-422 Switlik jacket. Not before dissecting that jacket complete for patterning purposes. My hold up is finding some correct vegetable tanned hide. The hide on this Switlik M-422 jacket is definitely not not chromed tanned. Once a comparable vintage vegetable tanned is sourced I will remake the pocket flaps (my jacket's pocket flaps were modified along the way) and finish up restoring the jacket.
Once my original Switlik jacket is restored it will remain as my model and provenance going forward.
That same Switlik M-422 jacket of mine is now reproduced by me under my name.
Cheers, Dave
From the beginning I had an interest in this thread. Moreover, I own an original Switlik jacket. Only in this case, my jacket is not imagined nor contrived.
My jacket is a pre War type M-422 that was made for the USN. Since that jacket''s contract was such a relatively unknown I took it upon myself to substantiate it's existence.
Through my own initiative I found that Switlik delivered something under 250 jackets to the USN during the first quarter of 1941. All according to the records I found through my research done at the National Archives in Washington DC.
Currently, I'm restoring that size 40 original M-422 Switlik jacket. Not before dissecting that jacket complete for patterning purposes. My hold up is finding some correct vegetable tanned hide. The hide on this Switlik M-422 jacket is definitely not not chromed tanned. Once a comparable vintage vegetable tanned is sourced I will remake the pocket flaps (my jacket's pocket flaps were modified along the way) and finish up restoring the jacket.
Once my original Switlik jacket is restored it will remain as my model and provenance going forward.
That same Switlik M-422 jacket of mine is now reproduced by me under my name.
Cheers, Dave
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33-1729
Well-Known Member
I think it was a fleeting guest appearance .... He has Facebook groups to run ya know
Being Facebook illiterate, may I please ask what Roughwear is doing?
YoungMedic
Well-Known Member
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Officer Dibley
Well-Known Member
You need to educate youself. I have no desire to talk about Swotty myself.
He is like Marmite: some folk love him, others are like me. There is no middle ground
