Memorial Day sale AT THE FRONT

[Smithy]

I certainly appreciate the attention to details in the high end repros but I think the point which was trying to be made here is that for some we have, or are fast approaching the point where the price for a high end repro ends up being considered more than the "worth" of the jacket. As I mentioned I could afford to buy a GW and I'm one for whom accuracy is up there for importance, but even an ELC is at the point now where it's more than I consider a good price for what I'm getting. Sure that's just me but when you have people like Andrew, one of the biggest flight jacket aficionados saying he's stopped buying new repros I think that's starting to show something.

I'm certainly not meaning to take away from the passion and dedication that the high end makers have and display, I'm merely pointing out that prices have risen stratospherically over the last decade, and I think there is a point for many where the price has or will get too high for what they're prepared to pay. There's always those who will pay whatever for what they want but I'm interested what the ceiling is for a lot of us flight jacket enthusiasts. Seems like for some we've hit the limit or are nearing it.

I wish Aero had had some size 44s in the recent Quartermaster sale!

 

[Bombing IP]

How can you say the landscape comparisons do not apply ,of course it does ! . We are still on the federal reserve system then and now and this is America . The amount of nipples and zips does not dig a hole into $1000..00 + . So the leather is made in a different way lets get some leather that affordable .There are a lot of furniture companies that use leather and a lot more leather on a sofa than a jacket . And what is vintage style sewing ? ,you take a jacket and copy it .Its been done before , and I believe it cand be done with compromises to give the market a nice jacket at a reasonable price .The machines of today can do anything that an old machine can do ,the old machines are for sale in abundance as all the companies go belly up . Look at any repair tailor shop or dry cleaners they all use old machines . You say the modern copy's are a representation of the 1930 industry I say they are not .I say that they are trying to capture a bigger market of people who knows nothing about the A2 .The A2 was designed for war and was pushed out the door cheap ,life expectancy of service life for the jacket was in the hundreds of hours not 70 years . You also have to remember when the jacket was given you did not send in your measurements three weeks before . If one was to small you got the next size . This hiding behind its not the 1930s so it cannot be done ,is phooey .It can be done with compromises ,to me the snap fasteners are never seen only the throat latch hook ,put a RI RI zip on there its a better zip and cheaper . Stay with one color of knits and make a jacket that's in the $500 -$600 range it would better serve many. Sure there is a market for the premium jacket makers and the people who want to wait 2 years for one that their choice give me the other choice . Me I want a jacket I can knock around in at a fair price ,not one I have to take a loan out for and hide the cost from the missus indoors' .

BIP

 

[33-1729]

The limit may be quite a bit higher, considering The Rake magazine is falsely promoting Chapal as an original maker and charging nearly $3,500 for their current version. Aero, ELC, and GW are an amazing value by comparison.

https://therake.com/brown-leather-usaaf-aviator-jacket.html

 

[Smithy]

The limit may be quite a bit higher, considering The Rake magazine is falsely promoting Chapal as an original maker and charging nearly $3,500 for their current version. Aero, ELC, and GW are an amazing value by comparison.

https://therake.com/brown-leather-usaaf-aviator-jacket.html

The problem with that is that it is a fallacious comparison. The people who buy Chapals don't know the first thing about wartime flight jackets - they're not the kind of meticulous enthusiasts you get here at VLJ, they're more the kind of types you find sniffing around the Hermes boutique. Chapal whether they like it or not have become a designer label, you'd find more Chapals on the French Riviera than at Duxford, Oshkosh or Omaka.

 

[tibor]

"people like Andrew, one of the biggest flight jacket aficionados saying he's stopped buying new repros I think that's starting to show something."

... I think it says Andrew has spent on one of the nicest collections of originals around and has found some excellent wearers, so he doesn't really need a repro.

 

[Smithy]

"people like Andrew, one of the biggest flight jacket aficionados saying he's stopped buying new repros I think that's starting to show something."

... I think it says Andrew has spent on one of the nicest collections of originals around and has found some excellent wearers, so he doesn't really need a repro.

Although I'm not Andrew and I may be completely wrong (call me out if I am Andrew!) but I don't think it necessarily says that at all. Andrew has a few repros which he uses as daily wearers. He also didn't buy ELC's recent limited Hilts A-2 when it came out but waited for a lightly used one to pop up secondhand before buying. If my memory hasn't fogged up completely, Andrew used to be pretty quick to snap up the new offerings from the top makers to the point where I always thought when a new release happened, "Andrew will post some pics shortly."

 

[tibor]

"Stay with one color of knits and make a jacket that's in the $500 -$600 range it would better serve many. Sure there is a market for the premium jacket makers and the people who want to wait 2 years for one that their choice give me the other choice . Me I want a jacket I can knock around in at a fair price ,not one I have to take a loan out for and hide the cost from the missus indoors'."

All very good, it just wont be Good Wear supplying it 'cause he has all the work he can handle at his current prices.

I 'spose you could pick one contract, one lining, one color knits and thread, one type of snaps, make a 38, 40, 42, 44, and 46 pattern, and one color of one tannery's horsehide, and maybe sell it for $500-600. Then the tannery says, well, we've got this really nice hide that tempts you, and you get bored making the same thing every day, and everybody makes "suggestions" for how you could be better... and you attend some vintage shows, and get some more ideas... life changes. I know where to buy a mass produced A2, I'd like to buy a Good Wear. I will probably always stay on John's waiting list and it will be my indulgence. Best wishes in finding your 'one contract' fella.

 

[Roughwear]

Thanks Tim. I bought my originals over a 15 year period and up-graded many to the have a nice collection of 18 wearable originals, mostly in a size 44. These jackets are really hard to find now as there are far fewer vets around and their families/dealers who sell them. Moreover the weak pound and Ebay's integrated global shipping programme where full duty and VAT are paid up front do not encourage buying from the USA these days.

I have six high end repro A2s from ELC and GW and have no plans to buy more at present, not just because of the price, but because I have the ones from the original maker contracts I like, such as RW, Aero, Cable and Werber. The Hilts jacket was a steal, which I cold not resist and is my daily wearer this year.

I also have other interests such as collecting RAF kit, as well as Irvins, where again decent originals are few and far between these days, so I'm happy with my collection of ten wearable ones! So this explains why I don't post pictures of the latest jacket acquisition much these days because there aren't any!

 

[Smithy]

Just to throw this in here, I bought an ELC 1940 Pattern Irvin in August 2007. The price increase from then to today is around 83%. Now maybe that's down to sheepskin costs and increased labour costs but no matter how you look at it, that's a fairly hefty rise. An ELC house HH A-2 has in that period gone from 387 quid to 750 which is a 94% increase. Not trying to pick on ELC, they just happened to be the first I compared old pricing with new. But those are some seriously large increases.

 

[Roughwear]

So what you are saying Tim is that the inflation in jacket prices far exceeds the rise in wages so there is less money around to buy high end repros.

 

[Smithy]

Thanks Tim. I bought my originals over a 15 year period and up-graded many to the have a nice collection of 18 wearable originals, mostly in a size 44. These jackets are really hard to find now as there are far fewer vets around and their families/dealers who sell them. Moreover the weak pound and Ebay's integrated global shipping programme where full duty and VAT are paid up front do not encourage buying from the USA these days.

I have six high end repro A2s from ELC and GW and have no plans to buy more at present, not just because of the price, but because I have the ones from the original maker contracts I like, such as RW, Aero, Cable and Werber. The Hilts jacket was a steal, which I cold not resist and is my daily wearer this year.

I also have other interests such as collecting RAF kit, as well as Irvins, where again decent originals are few and far between these days, so I'm happy with my collection of ten wearable ones! So this explains why I don't post pictures of the latest jacket acquisition much these days because there aren't any!

Andrew I'd give my eye teeth for your RAF kit and flying jacket collection!

 

[Roughwear]

You are too kind Tim.

 

[Smithy]

So what you are saying Tim is that the inflation in jacket prices far exceeds the rise in wages so there is less money around to buy high end repros.

I think that's probably a large part of it. I'm lucky that I could afford to buy any of the really high end maker jackets but mentally I've reached the limit where I just can't justify spending that kind of money on one, especially an A-2. It's probably got to do with having kids now and I rationalise more where my money goes, plus the better half would hit the roof if I turned round and said I'd spent 750 quid on an A-2. I'd have no problem spending 300 - 350 GBP on a A-2 but more than that and it just doesn't seem value for money anymore. I'm definitely another one in the secondhand market now.

 

[Roughwear]

I too could buy another new high end repro A-2, but can't justify the outlay and do I really need another one? No, at least not now!

 

[Bombing IP]

Smithy I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous !.

BIP

 

[johnwayne]

I too could buy another new high end repro A-2, but can't justify the outlay and do I really need another one? No, at least not now!

Crikey Andrew, by maths tells me that would be 35 jackets in total if you did by another but I think you've left out your US shearling and Navy jackets haven't you? You'll soon be able to wear a different one each week and not wear the same one for nearly a year! I'm not envious at all, really I'm not!!

 

[Roughwear]

Yes, Wayne, I left out my naval and B-3 original and repro Irvin and B-3 jackets. The total is 43 plus a few I'm restoring for re-sale at some stage.

 

[johnwayne]

I think you need help to wear them Andrew! Just hope you keep a good supply of mothballs!!

 

[CBI]

Smithy - the Aero Quartermaster sale was good. Picked up this one for under $300:

Yes, I know, large pockets and slightly oversized but I really like it and I LOVE this color for an A-2 dark, dark, almost black seal brown. The cool thing is it looks exactly the same when I wear a medium weight fleece quarter zip pullover and I don't have to tuck it in. A nice addition to the collection that I am sure I will wear. OK, I admit it, I like the big pockets, very practical. This jacket was made in the early 90's according to Ken. Its a marked size 46, heavy HH. The sleeves could be an inch shorter but I am not going to mess with it. Works well with layers............... yes, fun jackets can be found for less.

 

[Jason]

Gosh, thanks CBI. Was just thinking the other day it's been well & truly more than five years since I got a new jacket. This posting was the thing that tipped me over that edge... an ATF fleece tanker is on it's way to keep the approaching Tasmanian winter chill at bay. I guess it goes to show, there's no such thing as a 'reformed' jacket collector!