Interesting Reading for Collectors, et al

[Anonymous]

I use Pecards on my motorbike gear as that takes a serious battering and there's no historical value. But even then, not often.

Personally I'd never use it on vintage leather. I agree with the sentiments of the blogger.

Same goes for neatsfoot oil. It generates mould at an amazing speed if the article is left lying around for any period.

J_H

 

[Roughwear]

My view is that if a light coat is used on vintage leather it will help to protect the leather, especially from the elements. I have never found it to leave white traces or mould on a jacket. Without using it some of my jackets would not be wearable. I do not use it on all my jackets, but it is very good as bringing suppleness back to tired Irvins for example. It is less good on B3s because it doesn't penetrate the polyacrilic coating very well. There needs to be proper scientic study done on the long term effects of the stuff on leather because without this much that is said is really speculation.

 

[Anonymous]

If there really is that little concrete knowledge then it would an unwise man who would plaster it all over all of his vintage jackets whilst waiting for information on whether it is good for them or not. Rather like having a swine flu jab when the vaccine hasn't been fully tested ..........

I see your point though Andrew that it has made some of your jackets wearable but has it done so at the expense of overall longevity ? You are quite right in saying that if more needs to be known but if in doubt, leave it out is my VHO.

Luckily I know you well enough to know that you've not been selling all your jackets recently that have been Pecarded after you found out they were going to fall apart :lol: :lol:

On a sensible note, could we try to find out who has used Pecards, on what type of leather, how long ago, the climate you live in/jackets stored in and see if we can't increase the overall knowledge on this for all our mutual benefits ?

J_H

 

[Roughwear]

If there really is that little concrete knowledge then it would an unwise man who would plaster it all over all of his vintage jackets whilst waiting for information on whether it is good for them or not. Rather like having a swine flu jab when the vaccine hasn't been fully tested ..........

I see your point though Andrew that it has made some of your jackets wearable but has it done so at the expense of overall longevity ? You are quite right in saying that if more needs to be known but if in doubt, leave it out is my VHO.

Luckily I know you well enough to know that you've not been selling all your jackets recently that have been Pecarded after you found out they were going to fall apart :lol: :lol:

On a sensible note, could we try to find out who has used Pecards, on what type of leather, how long ago, the climate you live in/jackets stored in and see if we can't increase the overall knowledge on this for all our mutual benefits ?

J_H

I know Geoff Pringle claims to have been using the stuff for many years and has not noticed any deterioration in his jackets since using it. My experience is the same. For me it makes leather more supple and no longer cardboard-like and if a jacket is this state it is more likely to suffer damage if worn! These days I use Pecards very sparingly. If it resulted in jackets rapidly deteriorating would we not see legal cases against the maker of Pecards? I think climate is a huge factor in the life of a jacket. It is interesting that I have bought B-3s from the States, which have had crumbling shearling, yet not one from the UK has been in such a state. Maybe the UK's milder climate is a factor?

 

[Andrew]

These are very un-scientific observations but these are my offerings;
- have been using Pecards (sparingly applied) for the last 4 or so years on vintage leather flying equipment and jackets.
- I live in a Sub Trop climate with hot humid summers, and warm (relatively- 20degC days) dry winters.
- I have found small amounts of mould occuring in creases and seams of stored HH Vintage A-2's and on the outsides of of stored leather flying boots. Both were kept in confined spaces but only the jacket was treated with pecards. Also found some mould on the lining of the same jacket. I don't feel the pecards contributed to the formation of mould.
- I have never found white stuff on an Irvin or mould even when stored and all mine have had pecards on them ( two of mine belonged to Andrew S several years ago).
- all the equipment I have which has had pecards applied is a little darker but that tends to decrease over time.
- I haven't noticed any form of degradation of the seams or stitching as a result of applying pecards.
- like others the application of pecards has made it possible to wear/ display an item when before it was dry and inflexible. I always like to think that the leather relaxes after application.
- not all vi tags leather gear I have has had pecards applied as I generally prefer the lighter natural loom of the aged leather.
- I have taken on the old advice of Deeb and am trying to reduce the relative humidity of the storage area.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Andrews. That's interesting and positive thoughts on Pecards which can only be good.

J_H

 

[hacker]

I have been involved with vintage leather flight jackets of one type or another for over thirty years. And I have used various leather products of some kind or another over that period. Some I didn't care for, others like Pecard's I do like. But to say that one should never use any product on what basically is dead skin to help extend its useful life just doesn't jibe with me. As to changing a jackets value, I am in no position to argue, that would appear to depend on many things, many which don't really matter to me. But I'll give you a simple example that makes doing nothing seem foolish......take a car with leather seats and over time see what happens to one that get treated, and one left alone. Appears a no-brainer in that instance. As to using a product too much, I would also tend to agree that it probably does more harm than good. I wear my jackets, and they do get exposed to a much more abusive life than sitting in a display setting. Maybe doing nothing in that setting is fine, don't know as I have never been a collector for that reason.

Hacker

 

[TankBuster]

Seems the sensible option Jeff. Any idea how long it takes for this bloom to appear - I ask because I Pecarded (lightly) 2 original Irvins and they didn't change colour or produce the residue that's been mentioned. Well, not yet anyway.............. I wonder how much climate affects things like this?

I guess if collectors like to wear their vintage jackets, treatment is a necessary evil to prevent them from tearing ?

Rich,
In his case, the bloom took roughly 2-3 years to appear. He can wipe it off with a rag and water, but it comes back after roughly 3 months. He sent it to me to look at. At first he thought it was mold, but it is the effect of someone using too
much pecards. How much was used is tough to say since it was done by the guy he bought the jacket from. I am not for, or against pecards, but as a collector, I will wait before using it again.

 

[rich]

Rich,
In his case, the bloom took roughly 2-3 years to appear. He can wipe it off with a rag and water, but it comes back after roughly 3 months. He sent it to me to look at. At first he thought it was mold, but it is the effect of someone using too
much pecards. How much was used is tough to say since it was done by the guy he bought the jacket from. I am not for, or against pecards, but as a collector, I will wait before using it again.

Thanks Jeff - I've yet to encounter this problem so maybe I've got away with it. I really hope so anyway, but time will tell. :?

 

[capt71]

Deleted

 

[Peter Graham]

I agree with the comments made by Hacker. The article that is the subject of this thread is aimed at collectors who display pieces, not wear them. I'm in no doubt that applying Pecards or any other leather conditioner will devalue a display piece but for those of us who buy original jackets to wear there is really no alternative if we wish the jacket to last. If we accept the fact that every time an original jacket is worn it will deteriorate to a small degree, a few threads gone from the label, wear to the zipper etc then a little Pecards can do not much harm. This is pure speculation but I reckon an original WW2 jacket that is worn fairly regularly will fall apart naturally before any negative effects of a preservative will take hold.