How Long Does It Take To Make A Leather Jacket?

[B-Man2]

Ok.....This is sort of like letting the proverbial "cat out of the bag" thing.
Or more appropriately here in the U.S., It's like leaking classified information to the press.
Now ....someone is going to do the math here and come up with this question........ so I'll be the putts who asks it,

Please tell me why it takes months or in some cases years (depending on who your dealing with ) to get an A2 made and shipped out to the buyer?
I get the back order thing (taking into consideration that most, if not all manufacturers offer other types of jackets for sale) but are that many people buying A2 jackets?

 

[Silver Surfer]

that reads about right, ken.

 

[DiamondDave]

I take it DD was having a laugh?

Haha! Now this is hilarious. If you say so Big Man.

DD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stanier]

Ok.....This is sort of like letting the proverbial "cat out of the bag" thing.
Or more appropriately here in the U.S., It's like leaking classified information to the press.
Now ....someone is going to do the math here and come up with this question........ so I'll be the putts who asks it,

Please tell me why it takes months or in some cases years (depending on who your dealing with ) to get an A2 made and shipped out to the buyer?
I get the back order thing (taking into consideration that most, if not all manufacturers offer other types of jackets for sale) but are that many people buying A2 jackets?

That’s an interesting point.

If the best, and most experienced machinists working to fuss pot standards (and we all want fuss pot standards don’t we?) with no other distractions and going full tilt can do 2 in an 8 hour day then it would make sense to me if the planned throughput was for 1 a day, which also makes my maths simple(!)

Using 1 a day and doing a quick and crude calculation based on 260 working days in a year and running at 80% efficiency (20% answering email (and I have the impression some customers send A LOT of email regarding their jacket enquiry/ purchase), product development etc, gives an annual throughput (based only on these A-2 times) of somewhere just over 200 jackets a year, which is probably still over realistic production as the 80% efficiency doesn’t account for holidays, off days and other factors, so let’s say about 170 jackets a year if only one person doing the making. And everything else. And that’s probably a bit toppy still as there’s no provision for supply chain issues, supplier sourcing and management etc. And just a further thought, could it be that replicating the details of specific contracts elongates the repro production time? Just a thought / question as I say.

Anyway the probable back order number doesn’t feel an unreasonable amount given the desirability from those in the know for certainly the high end repro jackets and the coverage on many online resources for example. And it feels like some folk maybe order a few jackets at a time, particularly from makers who’s lead time stretch to many months and more; just my perception which could be wrong of course.

Looking at FB and having friends who have or are interested in repro flight jackets suggests to me the market is actually considerably bigger than might be initially thought. Which is clearly good for the ELC’s, Aero’s and others who have teams to retain and pay.

 

[dmar836]

I know the repro makers using multiple machinists, separate cutters, etc. can knock one out in less than a day and one doing it all might take a full day or two. Some will sew slowly to have the seam spacing perfect and hide every thread restart as well. Little of this is war-time like production but it is what is expected in a bespoke garment.
As a complete A-2 novice with great detailed instruction and advice it took me several days but spread out over a week. It's tough on the body and mind to hunch like that all day! The ability to shorten that would take a lot of jackets so is not something achieved without sacrifice and dedication... and the associated cost("cost" not being just $$ to the buyer but the whole of the input required. "Soul" being the most important IMO). There are inefficiencies with having to lay out, cut, and assemble in the same basic area if you are a one man show. Cutting 10 patterns one day or two, linings and hardware another, sewing shells another day or two, assembly yet another, topstitching and hardware installation yet another day or two. Easy to see that even with the slight economies a home player could achieve might be a jacket per day going flat out. Add business, materials acquisition/handling, etc now maybe one every two days if efficient and focused. Add to that all the email and talking to customers. That's how I analyze it as someone who may be able to give it a shot if willing to sacrifice all my other endeavors. It's all or none. Then after about one week, not want to ever look at another A-2!
The economies of scale we talk about are not only difficult to achieve but would also not likely produce something we want to wait for. Think of how some of the wartime labels are stitched! Do we really want authentic?
Dave

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Here's some of my workings out from the margin

Aero Beacon received two 50,000 piece orders, two months apart during 1942

I thinks it fair to assume that, with some many other firms getting orders from the AAF that year, Aero must have made a substantial hole in the March order to be trusted with another of the same size a mere 2 months later.

It would be reasonable to assume by May they'd delivered maybe 30,000 of the first 50,000, (?) enough to instill faith that they could complete another similarily sized contract while they were also busy making AAF Shearlings and A-2s for the commercial market.

There are enough photos out there to suggest that the Ferry Road factory wasn't massive and I'd be amazed if there were more than 80 machinists working on the A-2 contract turning out roughly, for arguments sake, 15,000 a month, 3330 ish a week, 670 a day, 8 hour day that's 83/84 jackets an hour, very roughly one hour per A-2 per machinist

I do think I'm erring on the cautious side time-wise

Here's link to one I made working flat out in just under two hours, cutting and sewing (Jacket and Lining) in a professional set up with the right equipment and cutting table readily at hand. Three tiny, speed related sewing issues but far superior to virtually any Aero Beacon I've handled although I say so myself

http://vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/17-years-of-hard-wear.20212/

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

If anyone has a copy of Gary Eastman's book I believe it shows the AAF purchase price per garment?
That would be a big help in calculating the time I know it was well under $10
Factor in the following

Machinists minimum wage in USA 1942 was 80 cents
So
I hour jackets machinist cost .80cents
2 hour jackets machining costs $1.60
3 hour jackets machining costs $2.40

I'll rest my case on that one, no point in going any further with the time taken...........as there are many other associated overheads and wages, cutters, checkers, packers etc etc to get paid and the factory will need to make a profit, plus of course there is the costs of the raw materials all to come out of $8 or $9.....can't see the machinist getting more than 10% of that for her work.

 

[Grant]

Really cool Aero history Ken.
Makes me wish I'd recorded the conversation I had years ago with an elderly Beacon resident who made A-2's at the factory during the war.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I know the repro makers using multiple machinists, separate cutters, etc. can knock one out in less than a day and one doing it all might take a full day or two. Some will sew slowly to have the seam spacing perfect and hide every thread restart as well. Little of this is war-time like production but it is what is expected in a bespoke garment.
As a complete A-2 novice with great detailed instruction and advice it took me several days but spread out over a week.

Reply : My first garment was a shirt, took me 24 hours, now I could a far better job of the same shirt in a couple of hours but a proper shirt maker would do the same shirt in 1/3rd of that time

It's tough on the body and mind to hunch like that all day! The ability to shorten that would take a lot of jackets so is not something achieved without sacrifice and dedication... and the associated cost("cost" not being just $$ to the buyer but the whole of the input required. "Soul" being the most important IMO). There are inefficiencies with having to lay out, cut, and assemble in the same basic area if you are a one man show. Cutting 10 patterns one day or two, linings and hardware another, sewing shells another day or two, assembly yet another, topstitching and hardware installation yet another day or two.

Easy to see that even with the slight economies a home player could achieve might be a jacket per day going flat out.

Reply : If that home player set up as a business or part time business, and went about things in a professional matter that should be easily achievable after a making the first dozen or two jackets...........A-2s that is, or maybe a simple Half Belt but most other styles would take longer.

Add business, materials acquisition/handling, etc now maybe one every two days if efficient and focused. Add to that all the email and talking to customers. That's how I analyze it as someone who may be able to give it a shot if willing to sacrifice all my other endeavors. It's all or none. Then after about one week, not want to ever look at another A-2!
The economies of scale we talk about are not only difficult to achieve but would also not likely produce something we want to wait for. Think of how some of the wartime labels are stitched! Do we really want authentic?
Dave

Hope this works answering your points in the quote, click to expand please

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Really cool Aero history Ken.
Makes me wish I'd recorded the conversation I had years ago with an elderly Beacon resident who made A-2's at the factory during the war.

Didn't you tell me something about the girls putting letters to airmen in the pockets of the jackets they'd made? That would add a couple of minutes to the make up time but not as much as a series of emails would! :>)

 

[Grant]

yes, forgot she said that! She also recalled the family feud between family members who owned Aero and Werber.
Also, remember she recalled Aero restoring originals for re-issue and how they were instructed to throw out any used A-2's that had painted artwork. Crazy!

 

[EmergencyIan]

If I recall correctly and I think I do, John Chapman told me, in 2010, that he usually made a jacket in a day (about 5 a week). I don't know if that has changed since.

- Ian