Cobblers161
Well-Known Member
John, the import duty is largely avoidable if one cares to pursue such a route, making it more like £700.
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Help I feel an A-2 coming on ...
- Thread starter John Lever
- Start date
Cobblers161
Well-Known Member
Two methods. Firstly one can arrange a coastal landing under cover of darkness and have the package smuggled ashore under the noses of customs agents and local constabulary. Alternatively one can have the value marked lower (Of course one must check with the supplier first as not all are prepared to do so).
CBI
Well-Known Member
So much for our "help". 
Lets say ELC, GW and BR (for good measure) are all the same price and all have the same lead/delivery time. What would be our recs for this thread? The other details (price, import fees, etc.) are up the potential buyer to decide.
My vote would be most any GW contract using the aniline dyed leather. It looks like John has very new aniline brown that is less red than the previous "newish" hide. I think my favorite contract is the Dubow 20960 (have a look at the seal brown one on his site). It think its the "smartest, cleanest fitting" contract and is also the most "modern" looking in terms of present day cuts. I think any body shape will look great with this contract. I prefer seal brown as a color and its also a way to be a bit more contemporary while still being totally vintage. I think this is one of JC's favorite contracts as well. If I could only have one A-2 repro, this would be it.
I believe its worth the "extra" money for you. Having owned ELC's in the past, I can imagine their newest offerings are excellent and upgraded however I think John has the hide advantage here.
Can others list their one (or two) choice(s)? I know this is not easy:
Lets say ELC, GW and BR (for good measure) are all the same price and all have the same lead/delivery time. What would be our recs for this thread? The other details (price, import fees, etc.) are up the potential buyer to decide.
My vote would be most any GW contract using the aniline dyed leather. It looks like John has very new aniline brown that is less red than the previous "newish" hide. I think my favorite contract is the Dubow 20960 (have a look at the seal brown one on his site). It think its the "smartest, cleanest fitting" contract and is also the most "modern" looking in terms of present day cuts. I think any body shape will look great with this contract. I prefer seal brown as a color and its also a way to be a bit more contemporary while still being totally vintage. I think this is one of JC's favorite contracts as well. If I could only have one A-2 repro, this would be it.
I believe its worth the "extra" money for you. Having owned ELC's in the past, I can imagine their newest offerings are excellent and upgraded however I think John has the hide advantage here.
Can others list their one (or two) choice(s)? I know this is not easy:
CBI said:
This is true for older hides, but ELC's current original owner jackets are made from their grainy Warhorse hide and I have physically compared them with John's latest Japanese hh on my 39 Werber and would say they are both equally good. Once again making generalisations about ELC's A2s compared with GWs can be misleading.
Returning to the original question from John, he would be better off buying a Werber or Cable from ELC and later decide whether to order a GW A2. With the minimum wait time of three months for a GW, he would get more wear out of an ELC A2 than a GW this summer.
Marv
Well-Known Member
Roughwear said:The GW Star is an awesome A2 and is far superior to the ELC version. It's on my wish list.
After looking at the pics of JC's Star in russet - a very nice A2 if I might add, plus currently owning a ELC Star from around 2007 (probably not warhorse) I was wondering why JC's A2 and ELC version are different in both leather shade and stiching colour.
From what I have read, the Star was available in both russet and seal and even though the style of the A2 seems the same from both manufactures they couldn't be more different.....which one is the more authentic or both are in their own way, I dunno.....confusing.
My ELC Star is a really great jacket, broken in nicely and very comfortable (even though the jacket does seem a bit dark in colour to me now I have seen other versions) and I would definately be looking at JC's verison when I am next in the market to upgrade my A2 as I love the Star and would to see JC produce a seal version.
CBI
Well-Known Member
Well, whichever he buys is fine however I really don't understand the thought process of buying an ELC and then LATER getting a GW. If this happens in the end, quite a bit MORE money will be spent. I guess the thought here is get the less expensive one and hope it "works" (undertanding that its equally as good?) However, if he has decided on an ELC, then great. Also, glad to know that the latest ELC hides are different but equal. From the photos, the new ELC hides look certianly better than before.
Edit - sorry, took me a moment to see where I was going with this
If the ELC are different but equal, then go for it. Looking at the ELC site, the new offerings Accuracy aside) are just not very appealing to me due to that washed out light brown color - accurate but YUCK. Most of my repros are in the dark russett/seal range. This is just a personal preference. Does ELC offer the newer contracts with darker leathers? I had kind of forgotten that my recent additions are darker (even my new originals).
Edit - sorry, took me a moment to see where I was going with this
If the ELC are different but equal, then go for it. Looking at the ELC site, the new offerings Accuracy aside) are just not very appealing to me due to that washed out light brown color - accurate but YUCK. Most of my repros are in the dark russett/seal range. This is just a personal preference. Does ELC offer the newer contracts with darker leathers? I had kind of forgotten that my recent additions are darker (even my new originals).
CBI said:Well, whichever he buys is fine however I really don't understand the thought process of buying an ELC and then LATER getting a GW. If this happens in the end, quite a bit MORE money will be spent. I guess the thought here is get the less expensive one and hope it "works" (undertanding that its equally as good?) However, if he has decided on an ELC, then great. Also, glad to know that the latest ELC hides are different but equal. From the photos, the new ELC hides look certianly better than before.
Edit - sorry, took me a moment to see where I was going with this
If the ELC are different but equal, then go for it. Looking at the ELC site, the new offerings Accuracy aside) are just not very appealing to me due to that washed out light brown color - accurate but YUCK. Most of my repros are in the dark russett/seal range. This is just a personal preference. Does ELC offer the newer contracts with darker leathers? I had kind of forgotten that my recent additions are darker (even my new originals).
I'm sure John will do whatever he thinks is best.
The recent ELC Warhorse colours are accurate copies from originals as the website shows. They may not be to everyones' taste. YUCK seems an OTT response to them.
John Lever
Moderator
I have the ELC Werber/Cable hide. It's slightly disappointing that both jackets are made from the same leather, which is quite dull in finish with not a great colour to it. Rob is sending out a sample of the Monarch leather so lets see what that is like.
It will probably come down to a very simple choice decided by leather colour and character.
A trip up to American Classics might help.
It will probably come down to a very simple choice decided by leather colour and character.
A trip up to American Classics might help.
Since any a-2 you choose will have cotton lining, two patch pockets, knit cuffs and waist it will indeed come down to colour and comfort etc.
To me, the caramel colours of the Cable and werber are too much of a swing of the pendulum and I think your choice of a russet maker comes down to a roughwear (or fashion your own out of a heavy duty cardboard packing case)or a Monarch, supple and stylish cut but slightly matte.
If you can stand to go darker I dont think you would be disappointed with the Star. this wears down beautifully to show the base coat.
A House jacket may be a good choice also.
To me, the caramel colours of the Cable and werber are too much of a swing of the pendulum and I think your choice of a russet maker comes down to a roughwear (or fashion your own out of a heavy duty cardboard packing case)or a Monarch, supple and stylish cut but slightly matte.
If you can stand to go darker I dont think you would be disappointed with the Star. this wears down beautifully to show the base coat.
A House jacket may be a good choice also.
Cobblers161
Well-Known Member
I have to admit to prefering the ELC name contract A-2's in style but the house ELC hides exhibit some excellent character over time. I've seen a few in the flesh and many on ebay that have aged beautifully(Sorry, I just can't use the word 'p*tina'), I almost bought one the other day but the contract snob in me forbade it.
I recently had a butchers at a RW in American Classics and I was shocked at how plastic it felt and how much of a yellow hue there was. Maybe the tungsten lighting was a little heavy?
I recently had a butchers at a RW in American Classics and I was shocked at how plastic it felt and how much of a yellow hue there was. Maybe the tungsten lighting was a little heavy?
CBI
Well-Known Member
I can't keep reading this but its fun. Yes, I think the lighter "yuck" color (sorry) is just too close to one's skin color and the jacket's end up washing people out a little bit. In this case, its about what (I think) looks good on a person. From a practical wearing it around standpoint, these washed light brown jackets don't looks appealing to me. I think a slightly richer/warmer color might be a nicer choice and can still be authentic. Over the years my wife, friends, family have always warmed up to the darker russet and seal colors. Does ELC offer a new/improved A-2 model in a darker brown? There is the 50.cal but I think the shoulder/collar area does not look correct. I know some here have that one?
John Lever
Moderator
Tim are these all Eastman jackets ?Tim P said:
I have seen a great looking jacket but it's probably sacrilege to say so but it's the BR hand aniline dye version made from bronco hide. Expensive though at £1000 plus duty etc.
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
CBI said:
I have the 50.cal and its certainly a great contrast to my 33 Caramel Werber.
I do like the richness of the colour.
I actually find the collar of the 50 .cal to be the best of all my A2's in fit and comfort and looking good.
When you say it does not look correct. Correct to what in your mind ?
John Lever said:
Yes, all Eastmans. frankly john, a maker label a-2 from them, especially as a new venture, will delight you. I am not sure that their means of characterising each jacket is authentic but it is a way of characterising their stock (for instance, not all stars were dark seal but enough were to make it fine)
I know you struggle with matte as much as I do and if grainy is an issue then a specially jerky star should fit the bill. dont discount house though.. label snobbishness costs me I dont know how much and its not necessary because the overall look is only tiny variations on a theme
CBI
Well-Known Member
the epps seemed very thin to me (thickness), the upper shoulder area seemed very snug/tight and the collar does not look anything like my original Aero. The collar (as new) also seemed really thin and characterless however one could fix that with some water/spray. The upper chest did not seem to have the Aero shape BUT - I could be wrong and I have not looked at one is some time. I considered buying one whan they came out but it looked off to me. If its based on a 16160, that contract was trimmer in these areas but I am still not convinced. The 21996 was more roomy up top. Overall, the 50.cal does seem like a nice jacket but .......................... to each his own I guess. :shock:
