Hans-Joachim Marseille jacket

[carrera600]

Here are pictures of the „ Rennlederjacke“ similar to the flight jackets that are discussed here. It has „No Label“, did not have one either, since there is no damage or any stitching leftovers in the lining. The jacket was bought in London, but the owner of the second hand shop said it came with a used clothes shipment from Germany. It can be buttoned up from one side only.
It looks longer than HJM Jacket.

 

[carrera600]

…actually it does not look longer, on my daughter it sits just to about the same lenght as HJM

 

[Rory Schultz]

Another point that a friend just related to me was that HJM sleeved belted buckle was not attached to the jacket. He said it is just a small belt that is just wrapped around the end of the sleeve of the jacket. I always assumed it was sewn on it. He said, no it isn't. That completely makes sense now because there are a ton of non belted DB leather jackets with just a plain sleeve like my Gelmock, and a few others I have.

 

[Pilot]

Another point that a friend just related to me was that HJM sleeved belted buckle was not attached to the jacket. He said it is just a small belt that is just wrapped around the end of the sleeve of the jacket. I always assumed it was sewn on it. He said, no it isn't. That completely makes sense now because there are a ton of non belted DB leather jackets with just a plain sleeve like my Gelmock, and a few others I have.

 

[Rory Schultz]

I have to agree with the photo that it is sewn on. Pilot saw the same issue I saw. It does appear sewn on. That is good to have as many different angles in photos. Now I can show this photo to my friend and say, see there I was right! LOL

 

[carrera600]

With so many different opinions and facts relating to the design and model of the HJM Jacket, i start to believe that his jacket was never a standard Luftwaffe issued item. I think HJM altered / individualised / customised it, to suit himself and his purpose as a pilot in Africas warm conditions. There is no evidence (photos etc. ) of other pilots wearing the same model jacket.
Thats the reason no commercial reissue has been created by a company, because were discussing an individual item that was out of the ordinary. There are no references like in the case with the A2‘s etc. which were standard issue.
Like mentioned before, alterations to individual equipment was done often by pilots, ground crew and other members of fighting forces during war time. He was certainly privileged in his own and could wear anything he wanted as long as it displayed rank and position.
I have a Luftwaffe whistle which does not exist. It was made and „customised“ to be identified as one. A lot of the Luftwaffe aluminum models that are called „trench art“ were works of art, made so realistic by excellent craftsmen that knew every rivet and panel shape off by heart. So why not apply the principle to a ordinary leather jacket.

Maybe iam wrong. However, this is a very nice thread that leaves lots of room fo speculation. I wonder what HJM would think about it. „ seriously“!
Sadly the jacket will not fit my bodyshape.

 

[carrera600]

..last not least, although this is not a motorcycle thread,i still want to cross refer to the „fedora lounge“ with regards to early bike leather jackets because of the similarity in design to HJM.
There are some very interesting jackets which come close.

German motorcycle gear

I've looked but I can't find a thread dedicated to Germany motorcycle jackets. Harro and Haelson are some of the more familiar makers that come to mind but there were many more and they've made some pretty cool stuff.

www.thefedoralounge.com

 

[Rory Schultz]

Another problem in locating those early German made jackets is because most of the Companies were either destroyed during the bombings or went bankrupt after the war. You need to find old German Catalogues to find what companies existed in the 1930's and 40's. Some companies were also located in other neighboring countries that were effected by the war such as my Czech made WICO jacket which were made from 1932 until 1945. They also made zippers for the Luftwaffe during the Spanish Civil War, but the war ended their manufacturing for a long period. Then it reorganized in 1992 as WICO B.G.M. making more modern, hunting, sports items and numerous manufactured products and exists today. ( From my research, this is all I could find out about WICO.

I can not find out anything about the RoHo jacket.

Later tonight I will pull some flash drives and look up some information I stored years ago.

 

[Rory Schultz]

With so many different opinions and facts relating to the design and model of the HJM Jacket, i start to believe that his jacket was never a standard Luftwaffe issued item. I think HJM altered / individualised / customised it, to suit himself and his purpose as a pilot in Africas warm conditions. There is no evidence (photos etc. ) of other pilots wearing the same model jacket.
Thats the reason no commercial reissue has been created by a company, because were discussing an individual item that was out of the ordinary. There are no references like in the case with the A2‘s etc. which were standard issue.
Like mentioned before, alterations to individual equipment was done often by pilots, ground crew and other members of fighting forces during war time. He was certainly privileged in his own and could wear anything he wanted as long as it displayed rank and position.
I have a Luftwaffe whistle which does not exist. It was made and „customised“ to be identified as one. A lot of the Luftwaffe aluminum models that are called „trench art“ were works of art, made so realistic by excellent craftsmen that knew every rivet and panel shape off by heart. So why not apply the principle to a ordinary leather jacket.

Maybe iam wrong. However, this is a very nice thread that leaves lots of room fo speculation. I wonder what HJM would think about it. „ seriously“!
Sadly the jacket will not fit my bodyshape.

There were many Motorcycle jackets preferred by Luftwaffe, some Kriegsmarine and Panzer crews. Though as a whole it was not nearly a large enough pool of German Soldiers who did or could afford private purchase items. Most stayed with their Military assigned uniforms. Majority of ALL Private purchased jackets were Motorcycle jackets.

 

[Rory Schultz]

With so many different opinions and facts relating to the design and model of the HJM Jacket, i start to believe that his jacket was never a standard Luftwaffe issued item. I think HJM altered / individualised / customised it, to suit himself and his purpose as a pilot in Africas warm conditions. There is no evidence (photos etc. ) of other pilots wearing the same model jacket.
Thats the reason no commercial reissue has been created by a company, because were discussing an individual item that was out of the ordinary. There are no references like in the case with the A2‘s etc. which were standard issue.
Like mentioned before, alterations to individual equipment was done often by pilots, ground crew and other members of fighting forces during war time. He was certainly privileged in his own and could wear anything he wanted as long as it displayed rank and position.
I have a Luftwaffe whistle which does not exist. It was made and „customised“ to be identified as one. A lot of the Luftwaffe aluminum models that are called „trench art“ were works of art, made so realistic by excellent craftsmen that knew every rivet and panel shape off by heart. So why not apply the principle to a ordinary leather jacket.

Maybe iam wrong. However, this is a very nice thread that leaves lots of room fo speculation. I wonder what HJM would think about it. „ seriously“!
Sadly the jacket will not fit my bodyshape.

That style whistle is called the Air Ministry Acme Thunderer but all militaries had their own version of it. The Kriegsmarine used it, and the traditional Naval Signalpfeife ( used by ALL NAVIES )as well the Bakelite version of Police and Air ministry. I have one given to me by a U-boat Captain along with his other items and his had no markings on it at all. It is just like the last photo and is all grey color but no markings. I used a loop on it but could not find any maker mark nor the KM. Many soldiers would personalize their items especially during lulls in battle.