Gulf War Era USAF Flight Jackets, What are we waiting for ?

[Officer Dibley]

What is it with this “i can’t raise both arms above my head easily” nonsense ?
Only times you would do that movement are to lift something up high or to surrender. The former i would take my jacket off to do and the latter i’d not be worrying about “The Look” !
If you want form fitting non spandex clothing, don’t expect leather to behave like that.
If you are overweight and the the jacket is snug, don’t expect great things.
If you can’t be bothered to undo the jacket to get more movement, stop being lazy.
It’s like wearing boondockers and complaining you can’t run a marathon.
Or you can buy one 5 sizes too big and have all the movement you like and look like a right tool
Never heard anyone complain you can’t raise both arms when talking about expensive modern repros.....
Happ Easter All
Dave

 

[Officer Dibley]

Well Burt, your thread here inspired me. I pulled the trigger on this one. Not as a collectible, the knits have been changed for 100% wool ones - but as a beater. And whilst i like originals, i really like the contrasting knits on this one.
Once again you have lead me astray !!

 

[Ed Rooney]

What is it with this “i can’t raise both arms above my head easily” nonsense ?
Only times you would do that movement are to lift something up high or to surrender. The former i would take my jacket off to do and the latter i’d not be worrying about “The Look” !
If you want form fitting non spandex clothing, don’t expect leather to behave like that.
If you are overweight and the the jacket is snug, don’t expect great things.
If you can’t be bothered to undo the jacket to get more movement, stop being lazy.
It’s like wearing boondockers and complaining you can’t run a marathon.
Or you can buy one 5 sizes too big and have all the movement you like and look like a right tool
Never heard anyone complain you can’t raise both arms when talking about expensive modern repros.....
Happ Easter All
Dave

How can you climb into a B-17 without lifting your arms?

 

[Ed Rooney]

I posted a thread a few years ago showing the fit of 2 of the jackets discussed here - the orange label Cooper and the 2000 “improved” USAF A-2, with side pockets, inside pockets and underarm gussets, by Avirex. It’s still not a G-1, but it is close.

Rather than repost the pics, here is the thread:

How do these 3 jackets fit?

First is a 1988 Cooper A-2 orange label in 42R, inherited from my father. This is probably the best fit for me, but I can’t lift my arms past halfway in this thing. Second is a 1986 Avirex G-1 in 40R, that is basically a sausage casing now. It fit me great when I was a skinny 20 year old...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

Well Burt, your thread here inspired me. I pulled the trigger on this one. Not as a collectible, the knits have been changed for 100% wool ones - but as a beater. And whilst i like originals, i really like the contrasting knits on this one.
Once again you have lead me astray !!
View attachment 56635

 

[Officer Dibley]

How can you climb into a B-17 without lifting your arms?

I have no intention of lifting myself up through the front hatch of a B-17 !
And if i did, at my age and build (NOT a 20 something raised during the Great Depression), i’d need a HUGE jacket and a good chiropractor
My point was that current fashion is for trim A-2’s which are dress garments rather than working clothing. I wouldn’t be doing anything strenuous in a nice tweed sports jacket either. Just me ...... no offence intended. There’s room for all opinions to have equal worth in this broad church
And thanks for the link Ed , which was very good
Dave

 

[Ed Rooney]

One of the problems with the Cooper is the huge arm holes. I feel like I am wearing a wingsuit when I have it on. That’s why Pop’s Leather used to do so much business fixing the things with underarm gussets. Most of the 2000 Avirex design actually came from Pop’s.

 

[Officer Dibley]

Burt, Ed, here’a an A2 that will allow you to lift boxes of apples onto a high truck or climb through the nose hatch of a B-17 and it’s as cheap as chips

 

[B-Man2]

Leave it to the hardworking enlisted man to figure out a solution to everything!

 

[Ed Rooney]

Not too shabby. Needs more pockets.

 

[Officer Dibley]

This link to the movers & shakers who got the A-2 reinstated has probably been put on the forum before but i’ll chuck it in here for completeness
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0993jacket/

 

[Ed Rooney]

Ahhh, the 1970’s....the good old days of the USAAF. I recall endless hours listening to an Elton John 8-track while waiting for our next mission to Frankfurt or Eindhoven.

Burt, Ed, here’a an A2 that will allow you to lift boxes of apples onto a high truck or climb through the nose hatch of a B-17 and it’s as cheap as chips


View attachment 56666

 

[Officer Dibley]

I think the USAAF ended in 1947
I work for the USAF
Dave

 

[Officer Dibley]

Not too shabby. Needs more pockets.

View attachment 56675

Is this a USGI jacket ? Never seen handwarmer pockets on an issue jacket before.
** added: looks like this one is an issue jacket with a multiple piece back

Pardon our interruption...

Dave

 

[Officer Dibley]

Burt, it looks like some of the issue jacket came without that awful velcro or are there signs it was removed ?

Apart from the velcro, it’s the non wool knits that i don’t like.

But as a future collectible, i think you are bang on.

Dave

 

[Ed Rooney]

Yes, the one I posted is a USAF issue jacket with stealth handwarmer pockets, just like all post-2000 jackets, as well as the new Army A-2.

The link you posted to an Orchard is not an issue jacket. The label makes it look like one, but about half the orchards you find on eBay are non-issue. It should have a one piece back and NO handwarmer pockets.

Is this a USGI jacket ? Never seen handwarmer pockets on an issue jacket before.
** added: looks like this one is an issue jacket with a multiple piece back

Pardon our interruption...

Dave

 

[Officer Dibley]

Interesting, thanks. Though i’m more confused now !
So what make is your issue with stealth pockets ? Who post 2000 made them & when did Orchard stop making them if all Orchard issue jackets did not have the handwarmer pockets ?
Dave

 

[Ed Rooney]

Saddlery (Cooper) had the original 1988 jackets. Orchard and Avirex also had smaller contracts. These were the original style jackets with WWII features. During this time, a cottage industry popped up and places like Pop's Leather in Turkey and another place in Korea started modifying jackets to fox some of the shortcomings, like not being very warm (zip-in liner), or not being able to raise arms (underarm gussets), and not being Air Forcey enough (hand warmers and other pockets). You can find some Pop's modified jackets on eBay. (side note: some of these mods started making their way to Navy G-1 jackets).

Some time in the late 90's, the USAF realized their jacket had some shortcomings. They contracted Avirex, who may have designed the original 1988 jacket, to update it. The result incorporated some of the off-base mods. Avirex got the first contract around 2000. I think Excelled has one as well. I know they have the Army contract. So 2000 to now has been the new style, with hidden handwarmer pockets, interior pen and wallet pockets, underarm gussets, generous sizing, a 3-piece back (only size 44 and above in the Coopers has a 3-piece back), and no throat latch. The jackets marked "Avirex" are superior to the later versions marked "Cockpit". The Avirex jackets used foreign goat skins, which have always been superior. I have one of these and the goat is terrific. The Cockpit jackets are domestic goats, and have a coating on them which flakes off. Antecdotally, some aircrews get their jacket, sell them immediately, and either buy something better, or just wear nomex. You can generally find these jackets by searching "DSCP A-2", although some naughty sellers are marketing their older models as such. The new jackets can also be had cheap.

I will post some pics of mine later.

Old version: 12 years
New version: 21 years and counting

Interesting, thanks. Though i’m more confused now !
So what make is your issue with stealth pockets ? Who post 2000 made them & when did Orchard stop making them if all Orchard issue jackets did not have the handwarmer pockets ?
Dave

 

[B-Man2]

Burt, it looks like some of the issue jacket came without that awful velcro or are there signs it was removed ?

Apart from the velcro, it’s the non wool knits that i don’t like.

But as a future collectible, i think you are bang on.

Dave

Dave
The stitch holes on it are small and hard to see , but it did have Velcro at one time .

 

[Officer Dibley]

Saddlery (Cooper) had the original 1988 jackets. Orchard and Avirex also had smaller contracts. These were the original style jackets with WWII features. During this time, a cottage industry popped up and places like Pop's Leather in Turkey and another place in Korea started modifying jackets to fox some of the shortcomings, like not being very warm (zip-in liner), or not being able to raise arms (underarm gussets), and not being Air Forcey enough (hand warmers and other pockets). You can find some Pop's modified jackets on eBay. (side note: some of these mods started making their way to Navy G-1 jackets).

Some time in the late 90's, the USAF realized their jacket had some shortcomings. They contracted Avirex, who may have designed the original 1988 jacket, to update it. The result incorporated some of the off-base mods. Avirex got the first contract around 2000. I think Excelled has one as well. I know they have the Army contract. So 2000 to now has been the new style, with hidden handwarmer pockets, interior pen and wallet pockets, underarm gussets, generous sizing, a 3-piece back (only size 44 and above in the Coopers has a 3-piece back), and no throat latch. The jackets marked "Avirex" are superior to the later versions marked "Cockpit". The Avirex jackets used foreign goat skins, which have always been superior. I have one of these and the goat is terrific. The Cockpit jackets are domestic goats, and have a coating on them which flakes off. Antecdotally, some aircrews get their jacket, sell them immediately, and either buy something better, or just wear nomex. You can generally find these jackets by searching "DSCP A-2", although some naughty sellers are marketing their older models as such. The new jackets can also be had cheap.

I will post some pics of mine later.

Old version: 12 years
New version: 21 years and counting

Thanks for that info. Look forward to the pics
Dave

 

[flyincowboy]

Funny thing my AvirexA2 was bought second hand and been told by the seller that it is a air force issue? belonged to an airman .!