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GoodWear vs Eastman. Does it have to be a battle?
- Thread starter majormajor1
- Start date
herk115
Active Member
Hi, Gang.
I first read this forum as the posts started to come in, and in the meantime purchased a used (but hardly used) ELC RW 1401P on Ebay. The previous owner claims it is 18 - 20 years old, but, however old it is, it looks brand new. I'm doing everything I can to get some patina on it.
Here's my dilemma as far as purchasing these jackets goes: my funds are limited, so I can't buy too many, if any jackets direct from the manufacturer. I have to take what I can get on Ebay. I'm actually okay with this because that's pretty much how it would be if I was an air cadet in 1932. I'd have to take what was handed to me, whether it fit or not, whether is was grainy or not, whether it had a collar stand or not...you get the picture. The point is I can't call ELC or GW and get picky about details simply because I can't afford to order directly from them, except maybe once every ten years. So I'm stuck with what I've got.
I've owned four Eastmans now and have been happy with three of them. The fourth was too big and for that reason just didn't look right, but that was my fault. I asked for one size too big. I can't blame ELC for that (by the way, when I say "ELC" I'm really talking about History Preservation Associates, as I'm in the U.S. and have to buy my Eastmans from them). Okay, I'll get to the point. Aside from the collars on these ELC 1401p's, which I feel sticks up too high, I've been pretty happy with them. When I take the advice offered at The Acme Depot, i.e. "Put the jacket on, look in the mirror, and decide if it looks like 1942," I have decided that it most definitely looks like 1942. Imagine my chagrin when you guys who are much more familiar with the 1401p than I'll ever be say that it doesn't really look like the original and -- how was it put? -- looks more like an Eastman than like an A-2. Something like that. I apologize to whoever I'm misquoting.
In no way do I claim to be as knowledgeable about the details of the 1401p as the other members of this forum, but even though I've handled only a few vintage A-2s, I've looked at thousands of photos over the years (most of them on my current hard drive) and know how an A-2 should look. After standing in the mirror and finding some minor flaw in the fit or look of one of my A-2s, all have to do is scroll through those pictures and I can guarantee that I'll find at least one jacket with the same "flaw." I won't know who made the jacket, what size it is, etc., but that flaw (funky collar, not enough shoulder roll, pocket spacing, etc.) will be there somewhere, and I then stop feeling bad about my jacket.
I see I'm taking the long way around to make my point, but please bear with me. I noticed above that some great shots of some vintage 1401ps have been posted. Well, I held up my ELC 1401s and made the comparison. Yes, there were differences, but to me they were minor. Slightly different size of pocket flap being the most notable. Everything else, including the way it hangs on the wearer, seemed the same and I was actually very relieved at that point. So, can one of you guys maybe post a picture with circles and arrows and a paragraph describing the differences between the ELC RW and the real thing? Can you explain just how the ELC 1401 doesn't look enough like a wartime A-2 (or however it was said)? Perhaps my eye is not discriminating enough, but I just can't see any real difference. What I mean is, I'm not interested in details that can't be seen from farther than two feet away, but just how does the ELC 1401p lack "the look"?
FYI, I'm not an ELC advocate and would own a GW in a heartbeat if I could, but I will say that Charlie at HPA is very easy to work with and will do everything he can to get you a jacket you are happy with. I'm not a GW advocate either; I'm an A-2 advocate.
Sorry about the long post.
Cheers, everyone.
Larry
I first read this forum as the posts started to come in, and in the meantime purchased a used (but hardly used) ELC RW 1401P on Ebay. The previous owner claims it is 18 - 20 years old, but, however old it is, it looks brand new. I'm doing everything I can to get some patina on it.
Here's my dilemma as far as purchasing these jackets goes: my funds are limited, so I can't buy too many, if any jackets direct from the manufacturer. I have to take what I can get on Ebay. I'm actually okay with this because that's pretty much how it would be if I was an air cadet in 1932. I'd have to take what was handed to me, whether it fit or not, whether is was grainy or not, whether it had a collar stand or not...you get the picture. The point is I can't call ELC or GW and get picky about details simply because I can't afford to order directly from them, except maybe once every ten years. So I'm stuck with what I've got.
I've owned four Eastmans now and have been happy with three of them. The fourth was too big and for that reason just didn't look right, but that was my fault. I asked for one size too big. I can't blame ELC for that (by the way, when I say "ELC" I'm really talking about History Preservation Associates, as I'm in the U.S. and have to buy my Eastmans from them). Okay, I'll get to the point. Aside from the collars on these ELC 1401p's, which I feel sticks up too high, I've been pretty happy with them. When I take the advice offered at The Acme Depot, i.e. "Put the jacket on, look in the mirror, and decide if it looks like 1942," I have decided that it most definitely looks like 1942. Imagine my chagrin when you guys who are much more familiar with the 1401p than I'll ever be say that it doesn't really look like the original and -- how was it put? -- looks more like an Eastman than like an A-2. Something like that. I apologize to whoever I'm misquoting.
In no way do I claim to be as knowledgeable about the details of the 1401p as the other members of this forum, but even though I've handled only a few vintage A-2s, I've looked at thousands of photos over the years (most of them on my current hard drive) and know how an A-2 should look. After standing in the mirror and finding some minor flaw in the fit or look of one of my A-2s, all have to do is scroll through those pictures and I can guarantee that I'll find at least one jacket with the same "flaw." I won't know who made the jacket, what size it is, etc., but that flaw (funky collar, not enough shoulder roll, pocket spacing, etc.) will be there somewhere, and I then stop feeling bad about my jacket.
I see I'm taking the long way around to make my point, but please bear with me. I noticed above that some great shots of some vintage 1401ps have been posted. Well, I held up my ELC 1401s and made the comparison. Yes, there were differences, but to me they were minor. Slightly different size of pocket flap being the most notable. Everything else, including the way it hangs on the wearer, seemed the same and I was actually very relieved at that point. So, can one of you guys maybe post a picture with circles and arrows and a paragraph describing the differences between the ELC RW and the real thing? Can you explain just how the ELC 1401 doesn't look enough like a wartime A-2 (or however it was said)? Perhaps my eye is not discriminating enough, but I just can't see any real difference. What I mean is, I'm not interested in details that can't be seen from farther than two feet away, but just how does the ELC 1401p lack "the look"?
FYI, I'm not an ELC advocate and would own a GW in a heartbeat if I could, but I will say that Charlie at HPA is very easy to work with and will do everything he can to get you a jacket you are happy with. I'm not a GW advocate either; I'm an A-2 advocate.
Sorry about the long post.
Cheers, everyone.
Larry
herk115
Active Member
One other request. I may not be in the right forum for this question, but I'll ask anyway. I've got original pictures of my dad in his A-2 that date back to 1942. It's definitely got "the look," and I would really like to know just who made that jacket so I might know what repro to buy next. If I were to post pictures of my dad and his jacket, is there anyone out there that might be able to give me a reasonable guesstimation of which jacket it was? Stupid man, he forgot to photograph the label back in 1942! 
Cheers,
Larry
Cheers,
Larry
No worries. There are those who can tell, but I have seen many ELCs that "had the look" IMO. Let's face it, they are miles ahead of anything in the Skymall magazines or malls!
Post those pics wherever - maybe start a new thread so we can comment on your dad's jacket. I can't but I guarantee there are a few who can give a good idea of what it is.
Dave
Post those pics wherever - maybe start a new thread so we can comment on your dad's jacket. I can't but I guarantee there are a few who can give a good idea of what it is.
Dave
herk115 said:
Just wanted to point out that you don't necessarily have to buy from HPA. Most on the forum buy direct from ELC no matter where they're based ... even with shipping costs it will still work out cheaper.
If you're happy with the look, and fit of your jackets, (and there's no reason you shouldn't be) .... I wouldn't worry about the minor details. If you really have to know, search back through Rotenhahn's posts ... it's all there, complete with drawings, and little arrows.
majormajor1
New Member
dmar836 said:
Here's a quick pic of my Eastman Monarch,just before it started raining!
I think the adage is "Try it on, and if it looks 1942, it's Ok" or words to that effect. This jacket does that for me
majormajor1
New Member
Roughwear said:
My apologies. I put that one up in a hurry! Very bad light today - here's one with flash, so better definition, but not so well framed - the good lady does her best!
Looks very nice !!!!!
Few weeks ago , I 'm still thinking that GW repro was fantastic as all of you bought it but were so expensive , but compare with ELC and with the rate of GBP, USD and Euro , I have realize that GW was not so expensive as I can think .
I remember when I join the forum , that when ELC make a new model of repro , many of us want buy it !!!!!
That's certainly why it's always so long for me to choose a flight jacket , the last one I bought is my RMNZ Roughwear A 2 ( 8 years ago) , and i am so happy with ..... with my old sefton too ( bought 10 years ago when Doursoux sell pretty good jacket , another time .....) !!!!!
Many of my friends has only one flight jacket , just one A2 or one Hartmann ......
All of my jacket were bought on feeling , only on feeling , I try it , I touch , I smell .....
So I thing if it is ELC or GW , we will keep the jacket for a long long time .......
Keep your eyes on our very helpful community , see pics , post new thread , ask leather sample to repro makers ....
Most important is to be happy with your jacket , wear it good and proudly , with or without paints , decal , tags , patches , and to keep alive memory of our theses glorious airmen , young men who fought in the air for our liberty .
Marco
Few weeks ago , I 'm still thinking that GW repro was fantastic as all of you bought it but were so expensive , but compare with ELC and with the rate of GBP, USD and Euro , I have realize that GW was not so expensive as I can think .
I remember when I join the forum , that when ELC make a new model of repro , many of us want buy it !!!!!
That's certainly why it's always so long for me to choose a flight jacket , the last one I bought is my RMNZ Roughwear A 2 ( 8 years ago) , and i am so happy with ..... with my old sefton too ( bought 10 years ago when Doursoux sell pretty good jacket , another time .....) !!!!!
Many of my friends has only one flight jacket , just one A2 or one Hartmann ......
All of my jacket were bought on feeling , only on feeling , I try it , I touch , I smell .....
So I thing if it is ELC or GW , we will keep the jacket for a long long time .......
Keep your eyes on our very helpful community , see pics , post new thread , ask leather sample to repro makers ....
Most important is to be happy with your jacket , wear it good and proudly , with or without paints , decal , tags , patches , and to keep alive memory of our theses glorious airmen , young men who fought in the air for our liberty .
Marco
