Goat vs. Horse, Navy vs. Army

[alfanator]

Having acquired my first vintage G1 just last Summer and only wearing it for the last couple of months along with some A2s, as a total noob i have some observations. This is from my small sample size of 2 G1s, 1 M422a, 2 original A2s and a repro A2, so take it with a grain of salt.

Goat vs. Horse
Goat skin seems to be more durable and maintains its original condition much better than horse hide.
Horse seems to patina better but they also seem to experience more damage than goats over the years.

G1/M422s vs A2s
G1s are much more comfortable and functional than A2s.
G1's Bi-swing back makes it easy to wear and the inside pocket is nice to have.
Fur collar is nice in the cold, not as versitile in warmer situations like the A2 is.
A2s fit like a suit jacket and restricts movement just as much, generally looks smarter/neater than G1s.
I am indifferent as to how each looks, they both have their charms but if i had to choose just one it would probably be the Navy just from a pragmatic perspective. I wear a leather jacket are more casual wear for me and usually would like to have more freedom of movement than the A2s provide.

Your thoughts and experiences?

 

[dilbert]

Just an opinion, but I have both types of jackets. It seems to me that the A-2 is a bit "dressier", that is it seems a bit more appropriate for casual wear for up to where a tie might be required. The G-1 seems much more casual, mainly because of the collar and the jacket itself is a bit more busy (the back with the bi-swing and belt).

Again, this is just my take on it. I have a sentimental attachment to the G-1 as I was a Navy pilot and still have my old G-1. I have purchased a few of A-2's over the years as the workplace became less formal. I always went to work in coat and tie, but as things relaxed and business casual became the norm I switched to leather jackets in winter. I found the A-2 to be more in line with what I felt to be better for calling on clients rather than the G-1, the A-2 seeming a bit dressier to me. As for comfort, while I have a bias towards the G-1, I really can't tell much difference in wearing them.

As for goat vs. horse, I ride and can't bring myself to wear horsehide and all my A-2's are goat. I admire the looks of the horsehide but couldn't wear one.

Again, I emphasize this is strictly my own opinion.

 

[watchmanjimg]

I realize that many who own original A-2s report that their goat examples are somehow in better shape than the horsehide jackets, but in my personal experience nearly every M-422 or older G-1 variant has exhibited significant evidence of deterioration due to age. Even if goat is in fact more durable than horse I'm not sure it matters much. I imagine many will agree that most leather jackets 50+ years of age should be worn with care, if at all. Additionally, I'll wager that with proper care our new repros are likely to outlive us regardless of whether they're made of goat or horse.

As to design, I agree that the Navy pattern is far more practical but I still strongly prefer the A-2. I freely acknowledge that Navy and Marine pilots were and are just as brave as their USAAF/USAF counterparts, but for me the A-2 is the iconic WW2 aviator's jacket. In my opinion it's also a much sharper look for civilian wear. While the mouton collar of the Navy jacket offers warmth and protection from chafing, it's really out of place in some climates regardless of the time of year.

 

[deeb7]

A2s fit like a suit jacket and restricts movement just as much, generally looks smarter/neater than G1s.
I wear a leather jacket are more casual wear for me and usually would like to have more freedom of movement than the A2s provide.

Jim's post says it all ...

... and if you want freedom of movement in an A-2, try zipping it right up to the neck.

 

[chancerider]

I agree that the A2 is THE iconic aviator's jacket...it's just always been a bit hard for me to believe that the designers ever actually flew in an open cockpit airplane although obviously they did. The jacket seems pretty worthless overall with respect to actually being a functional piece of wind/cold protection. Perhaps for the time of it's creation it was an adequate design that satisfied the cost/performance needs of the Army. The G1 and it's predecessors are a superior piece of clothing, personal style preferences aside. I use my 50's-era G1 as a 3-season motorcycling jacket it works great. Cannot see an A2 performing in that capacity.

I recall a WWII pilot's quote; "No matter what you wore in the cockpit, you wore that A2 as you walked away from the plane..." That makes sense to me.

 

[tom james]

I use an A-2 for 3-season motorcycling(the missing season being WINTER) without any ill effects. It may ride up a little but that's what sweatshirts are for. Yes, I have motorcycling jackets but the '41 knuckle demands a period jacket, and I'm happy to accomodate it.

 

[watchmanjimg]

I agree that the A2 is THE iconic aviator's jacket...it's just always been a bit hard for me to believe that the designers ever actually flew in an open cockpit airplane although obviously they did. The jacket seems pretty worthless overall with respect to actually being a functional piece of wind/cold protection. Perhaps for the time of it's creation it was an adequate design that satisfied the cost/performance needs of the Army. The G1 and it's predecessors are a superior piece of clothing, personal style preferences aside. I use my 50's-era G1 as a 3-season motorcycling jacket it works great. Cannot see an A2 performing in that capacity.

I recall a WWII pilot's quote; "No matter what you wore in the cockpit, you wore that A2 as you walked away from the plane..." That makes sense to me.

You have captured the essence of the situation, although I'll make an admittedly weak argument that the M-422/G-1s were conceived as intermediate jackets in contrast to the A-2's designation as a summer garment. This being the case, it should be a foregone conclusion that the Navy jacket is superior in terms of wind/cold protection. Of course, none of this seems to matter as evidenced by the pilot's quote. The A-2 has a certain "something" that transcends the practical, even among individuals we'd think would know better. :lol:

 

[herk115]

It's my understanding (though I can't remember where I read this) that the A-2 was designed as more of a "uniform" jacket than a utility garment. In other words, the AAF was trying to design a jacket the bridged the gap from something formally worn over a uniform and something worn in the cockpit to keep warm. The information I received was that the design of the A-2 (pointed collar, epaulets) was just an "outside" version of the AAF uniform shirt. It was deliberately intended to look "dressy" but have a practical application. I can ever find where I read this, I will post it.

 

[dadgad]

... and if you want freedom of movement in an A-2, try zipping it right up to the neck.

that's incredibly true.

 

[alfanator]

Spoke to JC about jackets when i visited last week. He mentioned that the Navy jackets take about 3 times more labor to make than A2s and have much more complex design and greater attention to small unseen details. Good thing they do not cost 3x of a comparable A2 of it will be through the roof.

 

[zoomer]

It's my understanding (though I can't remember where I read this) that the A-2 was designed as more of a "uniform" jacket than a utility garment. In other words, the AAF was trying to design a jacket the bridged the gap from something formally worn over a uniform and something worn in the cockpit to keep warm. The information I received was that the design of the A-2 (pointed collar, epaulets) was just an "outside" version of the AAF uniform shirt. It was deliberately intended to look "dressy" but have a practical application. I can ever find where I read this, I will post it.

Please do.

Weasel_Loader's pix of the early '30s 7th BG at Muroc Lake suggest you may be right about the "uniform" idea.

Apparently the first A-2s issued, in 1932-'33, had large nametags sewn above the left-hand pockets, a carryover from the A-1. A pic of Oscar Westover and Hap Arnold, taken in 1933, suggests they were leather, in the jacket color, with gold-stamp lettering.
(The A-1 tags were light cloth. Occasionally a name was handpainted on the jacket or nametag.)

Anyway - in Weasel's pix, the tags have been removed, leaving stitch marks. That suggests to me that they didn't regard it as a very clean look, altho utilitarian.

Sometime in 1934, the small WW2 type nametag came into use, again dyed a jacket color and gold-stamped. This may have continued until the war, when the undyed type came in.