Fried Ostermann M-422A? Seeking help to identify a vintage leather jacket.

[FreddyF9]

Hello everyone,

Some time ago, bought a jacket that was listed as an original WW2 era Fried Osterman M-422A.
I received it today and after a closer inspection it has a couple of things that are making me doubt a bit of it being an Ostermann, or even a M-422A.
Before buying, thanks to the great “Better fighting garment 2.0” thread and judging from the photos I had available, I was fairly sure that it was correctly identified, as it has the outward facing seams under the arms and the back leather waistband has a double row stitch; as you can see from the pictures below.

What I’m finding a bit puzzling, is the zipper, that is a Talon I wasn’t able to identify and doesn’t look like any other Talon I’ve seen on other Ostermann M-422A. Even though it could have been replaced (as it happened with other parts of the jacket).

Even more confusing, the wind flap has this USN perforation that, to my knowledge, only appeared in later Navy jackets.

Could someone please help me to identify it once and for all? If needed I can take more pictures.

Thank you very much!

 

[CK90]

Nice jacket, Freddy, the goatskin looks beautiful. On first glance, from photo number 1 I would have guessed an Ostermann based purely on the shape (shoulders, collar mainly), however upon closer inspection these are interesting and valid questions you raise.

There's guys around here who know far, far, far more about original navy jackets off the top of their head than I know. Like you, I'm still educating myself.

Will keep an eye on this thread, would love to have a definitive answer as to what this jacket is!

 

[ties70]

Freddy,

I think that the collar shape is wrong for an Ostermann. It should be longer and pointy.

The waistband of Ostermann jackets was double folded, like with an A-2. This has to be an replacement?

The leather collar of Ostermann jackets is usually a warmer brown... This looks like 50s or 60s color?

Ties

 

[Dany McDonald]

Hello Freddy,

Can you see signs of a zipper change, like parallel holes running the length of the seam?

Cause, sadly that's a 50's Talon... And the USN punched in the wind flap...

D

 

[ties70]

Oh, and of course the lining color should be different.
The punched USN is definitely not 1940s....

Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice USN flight jacket, but it's unlikely that's an Ostermann.

But again, great jacket!

 

[FreddyF9]

Freddy,

I think that the collar shape is wrong for an Ostermann. It should be longer and pointy.

The waistband of Ostermann jackets was double folded, like with an A-2. This has to be an replacement?

The leather collar of Ostermann jackets is usually a warmer brown... This looks like 50s or 60s color?

Ties

Hi Ties,

You have a point, the collar looks a bit different compared to other pictures of Ostermann I’ve seen on the internet.
I’m sure that the mouton fur was replaced at some point, as there are ghost stitches here and there around and on the collar.
So, maybe it’s possible that it was alterated a bit during the replacement? I can’t tell for sure!

Thanks for your help, much appreciated

 

[mulceber]

I’m not confident in this answer, and I’d like to see more photos, but I think it’s a Cagleco 7823.

 

[FreddyF9]

Hello Freddy,

Can you see signs of a zipper change, like parallel holes running the length of the seam?

Cause, sadly that's a 50's Talon... And the USN punched in the wind flap...

D

Hi Dany,

At first I wasn’t sure but on a closer inspection the zipper was also probably replaced. I’m not sure if the photo shows it well but there is a ghost stitch line running parallel the actual zipper stitch line.

Whatever this jacket is, it had a lot of parts replaced!

As now, judging from the ghost stitches, I’d say that the following parts could have been replaced:

• waistband (evidently).
• collar (almost 100% sure).
• zipper (much likely)
• lining (possible but not sure)

 

[mulceber]

I also notice that the bottom of the wind flap isn’t flush with the bottom of the jacket. Not as much as is the case with Monarch, but noticeable. That seems like a clue.

 

[mulceber]

Could you give us a shot of the pocket that’s covered by the sleeve in the first shot?

 

[FreddyF9]

I’m not confident in this answer, and I’d like to see more photos, but I think it’s a Cagleco 7823.

I’m not very familiar with this contract (or the G-1 series in general) but the USN perforation looks quite similar. But from a couple of pictures I’ve just seen, the Cagleco doesn’t seem to have the two stitch rows on the leather waistband…
Meanwhile, I’ve also seen this:

United States Navy Jackets: Fried, Ostermann M-422A

If you notice the wind flap, it has the USN perforation, even if the writing runs vertically (as the Cagleco does).

All very confusing, but hopefully we’ll figure it out!

 

[FreddyF9]

Could you give us a shot of the pocket that’s covered by the sleeve in the first shot?

Here it is:

It seems to be missing a label inside

 

[ZuZu]

I’m not very familiar with this contract (or the G-1 series in general) but the USN perforation looks quite similar. But from a couple of pictures I’ve just seen, the Cagleco doesn’t seem to have the two stitch rows on the leather waistband…
Meanwhile, I’ve also seen this:

United States Navy Jackets: Fried, Ostermann M-422A

If you notice the wind flap, it has the USN perforation, even if the writing runs vertically (as the Cagleco does).

All very confusing, but hopefully we’ll figure it out!

I think you've hit the nail etc.!

This jacket has the same weird little USN perforation as on JC's CD

It has the remnant stitch hole where the prominent union label used to be:

And it has the weird little returns on the pocket flap corners which seem to be a Fried Osterman characteristic:

Good work!

 

[CK90]

There we have it Freddy, Zuzu has spoken - Ostermann it is!

Nothing like an original U.S.N jacket - wear it with pride my friend!

 

[FreddyF9]

I think you've hit the nail etc.!

This jacket has the same weird little USN perforation as on JC's CD

View attachment 159319


It has the remnant stitch hole where the prominent union label used to be:

View attachment 159321

And it has the weird little returns on the pocket flap corners which seem to be a Fried Osterman characteristic:

View attachment 159323

Good work!

Thank you for your help Jeff!

So, even if many parts were replaced the shell is still an original Ostermann!
I’ve also been checking basically all the various Navy jackets until 1960 and I couldn’t find any with the two rows of stitching on the back waistband. So it seems to be further confirmed, lucky for me!

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, I’m persuaded as well. Nice ID, Jeff.

 

[FreddyF9]

Also thank you all guys who responded, very much appreciated!