FIVESTAR LEATHER A2 JACKET

[Dumpster D]

There's nothing we can learn from the critics who say it's all well and good, as long as it's all Top quality flight jacket stuff.

What does that mean? That means it's a bunch of Bologna. We shouldn't listen to people like that, who should concentrate on good jacket features, yet have a hard time even doing that.

I'll be damned if I'll listen to someone like that tell me what kind of Jacket, or what type of sewing skills and materials I'm going to set my standards by.

It's great that people are worried about such things, It's just irritating to me they'll try to talk to me about what sort of Jacket I should have.

Forgetting that most normal people out there reading these posts are probably wearing Mall Jackets with slash pockets, and blousy waistlines etc. can't afford a $2000 Jacket collection.

I'm sorry but you can have your Bijillion dollar Jackets, not everybody else is going to be able to have that.

You can't control that by pining about the way it used to be.

I wish they would worry about something that's more important than argue about the quality and craftmanship.

 

[Smithy]

There's nothing we can learn from the critics who say it's all well and good, as long as it's all Top quality flight jacket stuff.

What does that mean? That means it's a bunch of Bologna. We shouldn't listen to people like that, who should concentrate on good jacket features, yet have a hard time even doing that.

I'll be damned if I'll listen to someone like that tell me what kind of Jacket, or what type of sewing skills and materials I'm going to set my standards by.

It's great that people are worried about such things, It's just irritating to me they'll try to talk to me about what sort of Jacket I should have.

Forgetting that most normal people out there reading these posts are probably wearing Mall Jackets with slash pockets, and blousy waistlines etc. can't afford a $2000 Jacket collection.

I'm sorry but you can have your Bijillion dollar Jackets, not everybody else is going to be able to have that.

You can't control that by pining about the way it used to be.

I wish they would worry about something that's more important than argue about the quality and craftmanship.

I think you've gone off half cocked or missed the point.

Jeff's comments weren't telling you or anyone what jacket to buy but rather what jackets are more accurate. This was in response to the fellow before erroneously stating that a 5 Star is more accurate than the BK.

One of the things which is of interest to many on here are which jackets are the more accurate.

You've also obviously missed the multitude of posts by people (even me) stating how absolute accuracy isn't important to them.

I think you're getting yourself worked up about a non-issue.

 

[usafchappyt]

I think you've gone off half cocked or missed the point.

Jeff's comments weren't telling you or anyone what jacket to buy but rather what jackets are more accurate. This was in response to the fellow before erroneously stating that a 5 Star is more accurate than the BK.

One of the things which is of interest to many on here are which jackets are the more accurate.

You've also obviously missed the multitude of posts by people (even me) stating how absolute accuracy isn't important to them.

I think you're getting yourself worked up about a non-issue.

To clarify I haven't said and I'm not saying the five star is more accurate (if you were referring to me?) Just that it's essentially in line with a massed produced garment with entry level leather at every level prices.

People who want the richness of Italian and Japanese horsehide, perfection in cutting and construction, will be disappointed by fivestar. But prior who are ok with entry level leather, good but entry level construction and cutting will be happy with fivestar.

 

[Smithy]

To clarify I haven't said and I'm not saying the five star is more accurate (if you were referring to me?) Just that it's essentially in line with a massed produced garment with entry level leather at every level prices.

People who want the richness of Italian and Japanese horsehide, perfection in cutting and construction, will be disappointed by fivestar. But prior who are ok with entry level leather, good but entry level construction and cutting will be happy with fivestar.

If you want the mass produced look combined with leather that looks and ages like 1930s/1940s leather, you simply order a GW combat clone and specify slightly wonky stitching, pocket placement different from the other side, pocket flap difference, etc.

We've talked about this ad nauseum on here, but that's the closest you can get to a replica of an issued jacket.

 

[usafchappyt]

If you want the mass produced look combined with leather that looks and ages like 1930s/1940s leather, you simply order a GW combat clone and specify slightly wonky stitching, pocket placement different from the other side, pocket flap difference, etc.

We've talked about this ad nauseum on here, but that's the closest you can get to a replica of an issued jacket.

?? I'm not debating that gw is the best. I've used the term entry level so many times to reference fivestar

 

[Blackboxr1200S]

Fwiw...and on topic
I have both the goat Dubow 27798 and a Horse RW made by Fivestar and whenever the weather allows it, I wear these to work or wherever I'm heading off to.
Really enjoy these jackets.
In my opinion, the best options for a 5* A-2

And (please don't tell her) as a WWII collector I spent way over $2000.. on military jackets and lots of other stuff, but cannot bring myself to buy that $1000 "daily wear" leather jacket.
To each his own.... It's your money.

 

[Smithy]

?? I'm not debating that gw is the best. I've used the term entry level so many times to reference fivestar

My post regarding GW combat clones was in response to comments from you such as that on the previous page...

"Original jackets have missed stitches, crooked bits , uneven pockets. BK Aero on up choose great hides and cut the best parts of the leather, and sew the garments like artisans. FS jackets are well made, but reproduce more of that original mass produced feel, including grain variation etc."

 

[mulceber]

If there's a moral to this story, I think it's that it's great to find a maker whose work really does it for you, and there's nothing wrong with loving the jackets you have (heck, I for one should try to do that more!), but you can get yourself into hot water when you start making blanket statements about jackets you don't own and have never seen in person.

 

[usafchappyt]

My post regarding GW combat clones was in response to comments from you such as that on the previous page...

"Original jackets have missed stitches, crooked bits , uneven pockets. BK Aero on up choose great hides and cut the best parts of the leather, and sew the garments like artisans. FS jackets are well made, but reproduce more of that original mass produced feel, including grain variation etc."

Which does not equal saying GW isn't the best.

My God, we're taking about clothing. You all just reminded me why I don't come here very often.

 

[Smithy]

Which does not equal saying GW isn't the best.

My God, we're taking about clothing. You all just reminded me why I don't come here very often.

Why on earth are you getting annoyed about a reasonable and relevant response to what you have posted on here?

I wasn't rude, snide or impolite at all. I just mentioned something which was relevant to the conversation taking place in this thread and which I thought worth mentioning.

 

[ZuZu]

My God, we're taking about clothing. You all just reminded me why I don't come here very often.

You are right! We're a bunch of dorks arguing about the nuances of what have you- in our case jackets! I'm an ass sometimes- got way too much time on my hands- but I love holding forth about this stupid hobby I've been in since the mid 70s.

 

[B-Man2]

Rule #11
11. Regardless of how we view these jackets i.e. “GWs are the greatest, ELCs are the bomb, Aeros are the coolest” etc, etc, etc, . Remember that they are really just articles of used clothing , nothing more.

 

[caddyd]

And we are what we wear.

 

[Chandler]

I think we all have a level of authenticity we're chasing -- and probably have been for a very long time (1984 was a long time ago, wasn't it?).

I've worked my way up through the ranks of manufacturers since then and have yet to find that "grail" jacket I'm looking for, but my experience (and others' on this site) guide me in my decisions.

If I decide on what I want to spend for something, I'm not going to say that's what someone else should spend, but I'm certainly going to give an honest opinion -- one way or another.

From Flight Apparel Industries to The Cockpit to Flight Suits to ELC to Good Wear -- I can follow authenticity and quality in direct correlation to price tag. Take that for the information to use in finding the true jacket you want -- not as some elitist badgering of WHAT you should buy.

And yeah, there's a big population that only have an inkling of what is a well-made or authentic jacket -- but that's not us, is it? And we're here to help anyone understand what's truly authentic -- if they really want to know.

 

[B-Man2]

Authenticity has always played a major part in any discussions that we’ve had regarding the various jacket makers. With that in mind here’s what I’ve learn during my time in this hobby. Like most here, when I started looking for an “authentic” flight jacket … I balked at some of the prices being thrown around. The thought of laying out $300-$400 was hard enough to swallow, let alone spending $600-$700 for a GW or ELC jacket. So like most of us I went cheap and purchased what we would call today a low end jacket. I wore that jacket for about 3 months and tired of it quickly. The arm holes were too low and every time I raised my arm the bottom of the jacket came up to my chest. I won’t go thru the litany of jackets that followed l, but after several makers and scads of money I decided to buy an original WWII A2 . Now here’s my point … sometimes you’re better off both financially and satisfaction wise to just bite the bullet early and pay the high cost and get what you want. Here’s why . I spent well over several hundred dollars buying and selling jackets when had I just bought what I really wanted, it would have been much cheaper in the long run. Furthermore I finally realized that while some repro jackets come very close to being as authentic, as the materials available today will allow, they will never be as authentic as the real thing. So I spent the $1200, which was a pocket full of money back in those days, and bought an original. Looking back I’m glad I did because by todays prices $1200 is a bargain. So if your looking for authenticity and that’s your standard you judge a repro jacket by …. Spare yourself the costs of going thru several different variations of repros and save yourself a bundle of money and buy what you really want.
As usual just my opinion .
EDIT : I reread my post and I wanted to add that I’m not trying to sound like an elitist here, I’m just trying to explain how most of us will go thru a similar process in getting to the point where you’re finally happy with what you have. But in order to get there you will go thru a bunch of money trying different jackets out. Don’t do this .. just buy what you really want right out of the gate … you will save yourself a lot of money in the long run.

 

[leper-colony]

I have never heard Shawn claim he disassembles originals. Quite the contrary, whenever the subject has come up, he's said he does NOT do that. He examines them and takes measurements, but leaves the jackets intact.


Who has ever said that the big name-makers don't have variation in grain? Most of them pride themselves on having variation in grain and take loving photos showing off how idiosyncratic the leather is.

He took the pocket off the Poughkeepsie he referenced.

 

[mulceber]

Good point LC - I also remember however that when he got his Dubow, I asked if he was planning to take it apart and he vehemently said no.

 

[GON78]

I disagree with your evaluation of WW2 leather and A-2 manufacture. Uneven pockets maybe but rarely "missed stitches". I don't know what "crooked bits" are. WW2 A-2s were produced on an industrial scale and a few may have slipped through inspection with slight flaws but never anything major affecting the utility of the jacket. They were made with beautiful leather virtually unavailable today- grain variation has always been normal for leather- only since the 90s has the smooth couch leather of today become "gorgeous'. It takes a top repro manufaturere to capture this industrial sewing look- crappy sewing by Pakistani leather guys phoning this stuff in does NOT make for an "original mass produced feel" IMO.
A 5 or 6 count of stitches per inch is not capturing the WW2 industrial look- it's crappy sewing- nothing like originals.
As I've said before- there is no Great White Hope- you're not going to get a beautiful A-2 copy paying $380 for a jacket made halfway around the world. You'll spend that $380 at least 3 or 4 times trying to get the right jacket and then you'll end up buying a good one...

Thank you very much, I agree. I have already received my second FS jacket. I do not like it either. Two is enough. There won't be a third or fourth time. Cheap is expensive. I think the second-hand market is a good option if you don't want to spend so much. Furthermore, used jackets already have a nice patina.

 

[B-Man2]

Thank you very much, I agree. I have already received my second FS jacket. I do not like it either. Two is enough. There won't be a third or fourth time. Cheap is expensive. I think the second-hand market is a good option if you don't want to spend so much. Furthermore, used jackets already have a nice patina.

A wise man !!

 

[Smithy]

Thank you very much, I agree. I have already received my second FS jacket. I do not like it either. Two is enough. There won't be a third or fourth time. Cheap is expensive. I think the second-hand market is a good option if you don't want to spend so much. Furthermore, used jackets already have a nice patina.

Very wise. Buy a secondhand GW or ELC, you'll save a bundle and get an excellent, well made jacket, and very importantly, made from beautiful top quality leather.

We've all gone down that rabbit hole of trying to chase the new cheapo jacket which looks and is made like the highest end makers. I'll let you in on a secret - it doesn't, and will never, exist

Minding your pennies or can't afford/don't want to save up for a high end jacket?

Simple. Buy a high end used jacket. You'll be more satisfied than chasing that cheapo mirage.