John Lever
Moderator
The Crowns are very raspy when new
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ELC New Repro Talon
- Thread starter 269sqnhudson
- Start date
derleicaman
Member
I have owned several Eastman jackets, and IMO the zippers are the best things Eastman does, along with their sheepskin jackets. I have had their 1401P with the Crown zip, a Monarch with the Qwik zip and several others with Talons. I currently have a ELC house B3 with the Crown. I had always assumed that these zips were all repros. Never had an issue with any of them.
I also have an older RMNZ A-2 with what appears to be a NOS Crown. Never an issue with that one.
My only bad experience with a zipper has been my GW RW 1401P, which had what appeared to be a NOS Crown. I am not the original owner, and when I received it, a few teeth were missing but the zipper worked fine. I wore the jacket a few times with no problem. Then one night while driving home, the zipper literally self-destructed. I felt the jacket un-zipping while I was wearing it. By the time I arrived at home, it had come apart completely. It had jammed and was missing numerous teeth. It had to be replaced and I obtained a NOS Talon from MASH for this purpose. I appealed to the membership here for a source to get the jacket repaired. A member stepped up and I did send it to his person with OK, not great, result. I continue to wear the jacket with a functioning Talon zipper. In talking to John about the Crown zip, he told me that he had found them to be very problematic and was going to stop using them.
So what is the deal with ELC and zips? As I stated earlier, the zips are what ELC does best. Other jacket details I don't think they're so good at, but they do make a solid product and for years were the only reasonable game in town. Brilliant packaging, too. I don't agree with their very limited (length only) customization policy. Then they were doing some strange things with sizing a few years back. Until JC came along and forced them and others to up their game. Apparently, their business model works for them and if you think about it, the non-customization policy is what reality was back in the war years. I just feel that if you're dropping that much $$$ on a jacket, you'd like the ability or possibility of getting more than just a generic fit. Here is where John shines, as he gets the nuances of each contract's fit right, where ELC seems to do a generic fit for the torso and adds the correct zips, snaps and pockets for the individual contract. Sort of a Mr. Potato head concept. Did they commision the Crowns and Qwiks they are curently using? The little tags they supply with their new jackets would seem to imply this. In the case of their Crown zip, it functions with no issues. I cannot comment on the Talons.
No Eastman bashing from me, just an honest appraisel. Discuss.
I also have an older RMNZ A-2 with what appears to be a NOS Crown. Never an issue with that one.
My only bad experience with a zipper has been my GW RW 1401P, which had what appeared to be a NOS Crown. I am not the original owner, and when I received it, a few teeth were missing but the zipper worked fine. I wore the jacket a few times with no problem. Then one night while driving home, the zipper literally self-destructed. I felt the jacket un-zipping while I was wearing it. By the time I arrived at home, it had come apart completely. It had jammed and was missing numerous teeth. It had to be replaced and I obtained a NOS Talon from MASH for this purpose. I appealed to the membership here for a source to get the jacket repaired. A member stepped up and I did send it to his person with OK, not great, result. I continue to wear the jacket with a functioning Talon zipper. In talking to John about the Crown zip, he told me that he had found them to be very problematic and was going to stop using them.
So what is the deal with ELC and zips? As I stated earlier, the zips are what ELC does best. Other jacket details I don't think they're so good at, but they do make a solid product and for years were the only reasonable game in town. Brilliant packaging, too. I don't agree with their very limited (length only) customization policy. Then they were doing some strange things with sizing a few years back. Until JC came along and forced them and others to up their game. Apparently, their business model works for them and if you think about it, the non-customization policy is what reality was back in the war years. I just feel that if you're dropping that much $$$ on a jacket, you'd like the ability or possibility of getting more than just a generic fit. Here is where John shines, as he gets the nuances of each contract's fit right, where ELC seems to do a generic fit for the torso and adds the correct zips, snaps and pockets for the individual contract. Sort of a Mr. Potato head concept. Did they commision the Crowns and Qwiks they are curently using? The little tags they supply with their new jackets would seem to imply this. In the case of their Crown zip, it functions with no issues. I cannot comment on the Talons.
No Eastman bashing from me, just an honest appraisel. Discuss.
John Lever
Moderator
Thanks for the info, a well balanced and considered post.
Rutger
Well-Known Member
Otter said:
I'm not John, but I got one on my Werber from ELC. I like it because of its construction (cut and bent metal parts), which is completely different from anything else. I like it way much better than these regular Talons.
Check their website for description and pics, they're quite proud of it.
When brand new, very hard to zip and unzip as my (official) dealer over here to his embarrassment found out. It gets better though.
Can't say anything about resistance to wear, hardly ever zip it up. It looks well enough though.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_i ... cts_id=168
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
I'm not really qualified to enter this discussion as I've owned very few repros and only one ELC A-2, a goatskin Cable that was fitted with a very respectable Talon repro which was very robust and worked flawlessly until the day I sold it. I've had a fair few originals through my hands and seen failures with all brands of zipper. It's always been weakening of the tape, never teeth falling out or pullers breaking. Vintage Talons seem to be the most robust of designs so I guess this must follow on copies. I think ELC have gone over the top with their use of Crown zippers, sacrificing historical accuracy for the sake of aesthetics. I've yet to see any evidence of Crowns being used on the B-6 and only a small amount of B-3 contracts used them. They do look nice though.
Marv
Well-Known Member
I had various ELC A2s and G1s, some with repro Talons and repro Crowns and two with NOS Talons (apart from when new), the zippers all worked flawlessly and without any problems at all.
The repro Crown on my Pearl Harbor A2 is probably the smoothest working zipper I have had on all of my jackets so I concur, ELC's zippers are excellent in my opinion.
The repro Crown on my Pearl Harbor A2 is probably the smoothest working zipper I have had on all of my jackets so I concur, ELC's zippers are excellent in my opinion.
ButteMT61
Well-Known Member
m444uk said:
We used to use candles back east. Pencil graphite can be messy. But either will work. I've found it's better to let them wear in without any lube as they will get better with wear. I honestly don't wear any one jacket enough to break in the zipper... :roll:
John Lever
Moderator
Scott you hit the nail on the head. With wear I suspect even the Crown would loosen up.
It is the connection and initial engagement that is usually the problem for me. When I first got my Few B-2 I could not get the number 7 pinlock to work AT ALL. I almost sent it back as I thought it would break.
It is the connection and initial engagement that is usually the problem for me. When I first got my Few B-2 I could not get the number 7 pinlock to work AT ALL. I almost sent it back as I thought it would break.
derleicaman
Member
Candle wax is my go to for sticky zippers, too. Wow, that just conjured up a picture of the Rolling Stones album "Sticky Fingers" with the working pants zipper on the cover! :shock:
Scott, feel free to chime in for an acid flashback
Scott, feel free to chime in for an acid flashback
