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Eastman 50.Cal in the flesh....
- Thread starter havocpaul
- Start date
Curahee said:
This is a good question.The 50.Cal is a little darker than my depot redye Aero 21996. The back of the collar snaps are exposed on the ELC and covered by the lining on the original. The pocket flaps are more pointed on the ELC, but there were angular ones on some originals such as the Aero 42-18775-P. Both originals have Talon zips rather than the Crown. Apart from these minor differences they are very similar. As I said earlier the ELC jacket is not meant to be an accurate copy of an Aero, at least this is what Gary told me. However there is no other original jacket which the ELC 50.Cal is similar to.
I know that Eastman meant this jacket to be set apart from the other A-2's in their stable
but it emulates so much the characteristics of the 21996 contract that one can only assume that the small differences are on purpose for some reason.
Also take a look at this link from Thailand there you have a hybrid of a ELC house and this jacket, look carefully at the label
(second row from the top middle picture)
http://tw.user.bid.yahoo.com/tw/show/au ... =a&at=true
but it emulates so much the characteristics of the 21996 contract that one can only assume that the small differences are on purpose for some reason.
Also take a look at this link from Thailand there you have a hybrid of a ELC house and this jacket, look carefully at the label
(second row from the top middle picture)
http://tw.user.bid.yahoo.com/tw/show/au ... =a&at=true
A
Anonymous
Guest
Gotta be honest- I'm not feeling this new Eastman jacket- I don't get it. I don't like the Aero-of-Scotlandish pointy pocket flaps. I don't understand the weird Cable collar mixed with Dubow-like collar/zipper/windflap construction as illustrated here:
Here's the proper construction:
See how the collar starts well into the windflap? This is typical of original most Aeros. See how the zipper dives into the lining? Again- the typical construction.
In the front view of the Eastman worn the jacket looks pretty good- you know "from 20 feet away" but the back view worn shows typical Eastman problems- the big sleeve tops and the dumpy shape caused by the extra roominess of the modernized pattern:
Again- the far more WW2 look of the correct pattern:
So I don't get it- it's a nice jacket but doesn't it cost $800 or $900? Why did they go to all that trouble to obviously copy the 21996 and not just clone it? Why the weird pocket shape and collar? If I wanted to buy a generalized WW2 jacket wouldn't a Flight Suits make more sense? Am I way off base?
Here's the proper construction:
See how the collar starts well into the windflap? This is typical of original most Aeros. See how the zipper dives into the lining? Again- the typical construction.
In the front view of the Eastman worn the jacket looks pretty good- you know "from 20 feet away" but the back view worn shows typical Eastman problems- the big sleeve tops and the dumpy shape caused by the extra roominess of the modernized pattern:
Again- the far more WW2 look of the correct pattern:
So I don't get it- it's a nice jacket but doesn't it cost $800 or $900? Why did they go to all that trouble to obviously copy the 21996 and not just clone it? Why the weird pocket shape and collar? If I wanted to buy a generalized WW2 jacket wouldn't a Flight Suits make more sense? Am I way off base?
you do have a point there. however, I think there is a deal of care not to encroach too completely onto Aero territory.
See the look of the Aero jacket is quite unique and for that is worth ofering as a style option. Go too far and you are once again into a war with the competition which has been quite acrimonious in the past. (we are probably not helping by drawing these comparisons)I may well take the plunge but I have to justify a dark jacket as too many of my choices are dark seal.
Think of it as a house brand from Eastman with Aero nuances. Bear in mind that the blandness and non-specific nature of the ELC house brand has stood them well for many years. To regard or market this as a 'maker' jacket is to run the gauntlet of copyright breach.
I am just glad they have come this close with it because, despite knowing my onions to a point, beyond a point the actual detail is lost on me and frankly I am glad because to be too anal about it would spoil my enjoyment of any jacket.
and honestly, get ten of any one contract in original and tell me that stitch for stitch they are the same...Their target market does not require what some people on here need as a matter of necessity.
Something can be very very tasty without being blue ribbon gourmet.
maybe this is why so many jackets 'do the rounds' on here.
It stands as it is and I have to be a little amused by the chic marketing.. but it is what it is and ELC are keen to avoid claims that we have made about it by proxy.
See the look of the Aero jacket is quite unique and for that is worth ofering as a style option. Go too far and you are once again into a war with the competition which has been quite acrimonious in the past. (we are probably not helping by drawing these comparisons)I may well take the plunge but I have to justify a dark jacket as too many of my choices are dark seal.
Think of it as a house brand from Eastman with Aero nuances. Bear in mind that the blandness and non-specific nature of the ELC house brand has stood them well for many years. To regard or market this as a 'maker' jacket is to run the gauntlet of copyright breach.
I am just glad they have come this close with it because, despite knowing my onions to a point, beyond a point the actual detail is lost on me and frankly I am glad because to be too anal about it would spoil my enjoyment of any jacket.
and honestly, get ten of any one contract in original and tell me that stitch for stitch they are the same...Their target market does not require what some people on here need as a matter of necessity.
Something can be very very tasty without being blue ribbon gourmet.
maybe this is why so many jackets 'do the rounds' on here.
It stands as it is and I have to be a little amused by the chic marketing.. but it is what it is and ELC are keen to avoid claims that we have made about it by proxy.
Miles_Archer
Member
One thing I know: both Andrew and John need to invest in denim that goes better with A-2s. Maybe some 55 LVCs or Sugar Cane 47s to start.
I have never quite understood how Aero Scotland could prevent anyone copying a WW2 Aero, sure they might own the name but not the style and cut surely. GW do an Aero contract but with GW label, so do BR and The Few with their own labels. ELC do Roughwear jackets but so do others so what is Aero's beef?
So I don't get it- it's a nice jacket but doesn't it cost $800 or $900? Why did they go to all that trouble to obviously copy the 21996 and not just clone it? Why the weird pocket shape and collar? If I wanted to buy a generalized WW2 jacket wouldn't a Flight Suits make more sense? Am I way off base? [/quote]
Jeff, I see immediately your point about the collar, but what do you see as the significant discrepancy viz a viz the rear view of the jackets? Apart from the sleeve length they look the same to me. Maybe Andrew and John have different length arms!?!?!?
And I'm not saying this to rile you, but I like that deep scallop on the pocket flaps!
Many thanks to Andrew for taking the time and trouble to post these.
[/quote]Jeff, I see immediately your point about the collar, but what do you see as the significant discrepancy viz a viz the rear view of the jackets? Apart from the sleeve length they look the same to me. Maybe Andrew and John have different length arms!?!?!?
And I'm not saying this to rile you, but I like that deep scallop on the pocket flaps!
Many thanks to Andrew for taking the time and trouble to post these.
A
Anonymous
Guest
rich:
! Again- IMO !
The top part of the Eastman is looser and bigger with big sleeve tops and a big underarm area tapering to a smaller waist. The GW shows a more WW2-like tube shaped body, smaller sleeve holes and a squarer look overall. Hard to put your finger on but definitely a comparison oif a "modern" vs. WW2 pattern IMO! As far as the pockets- I'm not sure anybody scalloped their pockets that much in WW2- they remind me of Aero of Scotland- a bad memory
! Again- IMO !
The top part of the Eastman is looser and bigger with big sleeve tops and a big underarm area tapering to a smaller waist. The GW shows a more WW2-like tube shaped body, smaller sleeve holes and a squarer look overall. Hard to put your finger on but definitely a comparison oif a "modern" vs. WW2 pattern IMO! As far as the pockets- I'm not sure anybody scalloped their pockets that much in WW2- they remind me of Aero of Scotland- a bad memory ! Again- IMO ![/quote]
That's some very exacting criteria! I guess what's significant is your familiarity with original jackets - an impossible benchmark to ignore once you're aware of the subtleties?
! Again- IMO ![/quote]That's some very exacting criteria! I guess what's significant is your familiarity with original jackets - an impossible benchmark to ignore once you're aware of the subtleties?
CBI
Well-Known Member
remember folks, once this (and any other good repro) gets some honest wear, its going to look pretty darn good and some of the "details" will become of lesser importance. I can understand the exacting critique when a specific contract is being reproduced but that does not seem to be the point with this jacket. Seeing as there were so many private purchase jackets actually used in WWII, it seems lots of the premium A-2 repros should be given a passing grade and the box of interpretation should be pretty big. This looks like a pretty neat jacket and I am glad to see ELC adding new products. It DOES look a bit like an Aeroleather A-2.
Marv
Well-Known Member
I too visited Duxford on the Saturday and took the time to peruse the ELC stand, being a Star owner immediately checked out their current Star stock which I noticed that the seal brown colour had become slighty lighter than mine which I have had for about a year and a half, but still looked excellent.
I also tried on the 50 Cal in a 46" which I was impressed with on both the fit, the quality of the steerhide and also the grainy texture giving all the look and feel on a 50 mission jacket.
The only thing that stopped me purchasing one was the berry knits, unfortunately the contrast between the jacket and the knits doesn't float my boat.
Having said that the quaility of the knits have greatly improved and compared to my Star are far superior so all in all it's an excellent jacket, if I could have it with the standard brown knits I wouldn't hesitate and buy one.
oh yeah, the airshow was brilliant also, shame about the showers during the show but what's a bit of rain between friends
I also tried on the 50 Cal in a 46" which I was impressed with on both the fit, the quality of the steerhide and also the grainy texture giving all the look and feel on a 50 mission jacket.
The only thing that stopped me purchasing one was the berry knits, unfortunately the contrast between the jacket and the knits doesn't float my boat.
Having said that the quaility of the knits have greatly improved and compared to my Star are far superior so all in all it's an excellent jacket, if I could have it with the standard brown knits I wouldn't hesitate and buy one.
oh yeah, the airshow was brilliant also, shame about the showers during the show but what's a bit of rain between friends
269sqnhudson
Active Member
Hey Marv, I'm thinking about an ELC Star (flitting between that and about 10 other types for autumn!) How old is it and how's it holding up?
Cheers
T
Cheers
T
Chandler
Well-Known Member
Here are some pics of my ELC Star steerhide. According to Gary, this Star was manufactured in 2003. The hide is pretty dark compared to other seal-brown hides I've seen on repros, and I like the feel and drape of the steerhide.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=760
Marv, how does this compare with your Star, the new Stars, and even the new .50 Cal (since that's also steerhide).
Chandler
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=760
Marv, how does this compare with your Star, the new Stars, and even the new .50 Cal (since that's also steerhide).
Chandler
Marv
Well-Known Member
Here are a few pics of my Star in horsehide which was purchased back in Feb 07.
Compared to Chandler's steerhide version it is not as grainy but has creased around the areas of wear eg. sleeves, pocket flaps, collar etc. but overall the horsehide is quite smooth.
As for the colour, it's hard to tell from photos but I would say looking at Chandler's pics mine seems to be a little lighter.
However the current ELC Star which I inspected at Duxford last weekend seemed to be even lighter in colour, I would say somewhere in the middle of seal and russet brown.
Anyway here are a few pics of my Star straight out of the box, sorry I don't have any up to date photos to hand......see what you think.
Compared to Chandler's steerhide version it is not as grainy but has creased around the areas of wear eg. sleeves, pocket flaps, collar etc. but overall the horsehide is quite smooth.
As for the colour, it's hard to tell from photos but I would say looking at Chandler's pics mine seems to be a little lighter.
However the current ELC Star which I inspected at Duxford last weekend seemed to be even lighter in colour, I would say somewhere in the middle of seal and russet brown.
Anyway here are a few pics of my Star straight out of the box, sorry I don't have any up to date photos to hand......see what you think.
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