dubow mfg

[Ken at Aero Leather]

That's according to you.

Please have a go at costing an A-2
Materials breakdown, % for wages, rents, rates, NI insurance, pension contributions, website, etc etc
It would be interesting to see what you think it would cost.

 

[Smithy]

If you re-read the post you'll see I advise you guys buy one, that's not anti nor sarcastic, where's the downplay in that?
There's nothing wrong with loss leaders, it's a common practice in all kinds of fields. It costs less than a PR promotional campaign If one has confidence in one's product, and the Dubow is obviously a quality product, then profits can wait, the price can gradually goup, Euros become Pounds, the price gradually creeps up to a realistic level and all is hunky dory until someone starts shouting the odds on a forum and, "here we go round the mulberry bush" again............deja vu

Please have a go at costing an A-2
Materials breakdown, % for wages, rents, rates, NI insurance, pension contributions, website, etc etc
It would be interesting to see what you think it would cost.

Maybe I'm getting cynical in my advancing years Ken but for some reason I don't feel particularly inclined to believe everything that a representative from a company which is in direct competition has to say about the other competition's business or the nature of it. You're not exactly a neutral observer without a vested interest.

 

[gramballard]

This is exactly the business model used by BK in the beginning.

 

[zoomer]

for my fellow Yanks/Rebs, shouting the odds means talking sh!t.

Ken, is a "realistic" price level one where a maker is perceived as high-end, or could one compete on price even with some reputation established?

It seems everybody's goal is to get $1k per jacket, or as close as possible, so all the good tailoring, features, etc., go to the highest priced model with prestige limited edition hides, etc. This eventually becomes the maker's only line.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Smithy

Not cynical, but too stubborn to stand back and take a fresh look at the facts once you get something into your head.
If you look back in my posts, I stood up for ELC when they got slagged for price increases, I've heaped praise on JC, I listed the Chinese A-2 first, OK I had issues with a firm trying to hide the place of manufacture and the resultant profiteering but over the piece I've posted far more positives about what you'd call Aero's competitors than I ever posted negatives.
If you recall the whole AVI thing was pretty much started by you contstantly banging on (for want of a better expression) about ELC's, and Aero's especially, price increase.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

This is exactly the business model used by BK in the beginning.

As I said,it's common practice.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

for my fellow Yanks/Rebs, shouting the odds means talking sh!t.

Ken, is a "realistic" price level one where a maker is perceived as high-end, or could one compete on price even with some reputation established?

It seems everybody's goal is to get $1k per jacket, or as close as possible, so all the good tailoring, features, etc., go to the highest priced model with prestige limited edition hides, etc. This eventually becomes the maker's only line.

We work from what it costs us to produce a model, not what someone else's similar product retails for, or what was the most we think we could get for it.

If that was the case most Aero civvy jackets would retail for around the same price as (for instance) a Himel or a Goodwear as I'm pretty sure there's enough folk out there would continue to buy our jackets and the extensive extra profits would more than cover the decline in numbers sold.

 

[Smithy]

If you recall the whole AVI thing was pretty much started by you contstantly banging on (for want of a better expression) about ELC's, and Aero's especially, price increase.

No. You actually started the whole AVI thing by banging on and on about where they were made and trying to insinuate there were underhand and dirty tactics involved. Anyone can see this in black and white in Brett's review thread where you kicked it off on page 1 of that thread, and kept on going on and on about them and where they were made for the entire thread. Here you go page 1 with you kicking the whole shebang off:

http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/avi-lthr-bronco-a-2-jacket-review-pics.20936/

I said that because prices have gone up so much over the last decade or so for A-2s punters were interested in more reasonably priced jackets and that these price rises had created a niche which AVI LTHR had come in to fill. Which for some reason didn't amuse you.

Not believing a company representative talking down the opposition isn't stubbornness, it's commonsense. I wouldn't believe a word the guy from BMW has to say about the new Mercedes S Class, just the same way as I'm not going to take as gospel what one jacket maker has to say about another's products or business model. Sorry but your user name doesn't exactly set you up as Mr Impartiality.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

.......that was quite a while after your post quoting % increases in Aero A-2s

 

[Smithy]

I mentioned the price rises as the reason for a company like AVI popping up which seemed to rub you up the wrong way. You seemed to go on about where they came from for rather a long time starting on page number 1 and going on until page 15 or 16. I'd imagine 15 pages of harping on about where they were made could be argued as banging on especially coming from a jacket maker in the review thread of a jacket by another maker.

 

[Persimmon]

Wasn’t this thread about Platon’s new company ???

 

[Silver Surfer]

ahhhh, yes, yogi's, "deja vu" all over again. as a side mention, the first dubow contract, like other pre war contracts were made of a light colored russet hh, collar stand, narrower sleeves, and were a tad longer, and narrower per relative size[yes even for a dubow] then subsequent contracts. the second contract had elements of the first and third contract [similar to the 16160 aero contract], having become wider, with wider sleeves, and some with, and some without collar stands. also, some of the second contract dubows had "property of...." on the nomenclature label, while others had a "property of "added on a separate label strip below the nomenclature label. meanwhile, all of the dubow contracts maintained the classic scalloped pocket flaps and curved pointy collar, that kinda echoed the scalloped pocket flaps. imo, a very well thought out aesthetic. dubow used all manor of zippers through out their production, ie: kwiks, talons [nickel as well as brass] and crowns. best as i cant ell,, dubow used horween hh as ken mentioned, as well as goat, and in all likelyhood, moo as well.

 

[CBI]

Nice looking jacket but do you all notice the long creases all over portions of the hide. The grain looks really odd to me in some parts. Was the hide put through a press at all during processing. Almost looks like stretch marks. This was the case with some of BK's other hides. Also, agreed, no way its Vincenza. Again, looks good overall but..............

 

[Smithy]

Wasn’t this thread about Platon’s new company ???

I was one of the ones which took this off message so sorry for that. One thing though which I think all of this and the "other thread" has brought up is...

I actually question the worth of having a maker coming in and making comments about another maker's products, especially when the comments are negative, that is implied or can be construed. Cynicism or not, you have to question the motives of a maker or a representative of a company making comments about other companies when they are in financial competition with each other.

One of the reasons why I like Gary and John is because they don't get involved in squabbles on websites or trash talk the opposition. They make their products and let them speak for themselves. DD is active here but you don't see him taking potshots at other makers. Bitching about other makers and their products doesn't look good and does more harm than good.

I might be entirely the only one here who thinks this but perhaps we need some rules for how vendors communicate here on VLJ. All the other boards I am a member on have this. They don't mind vendors being members but how they participate and especially how they refer to other companies and their products is closely regulated. No vendor should be able to use his position as a member to try to undermine another business and especially for the obvious or resultant betterment of his own company.

Share your knowledge but leave the underhand guerrilla marketing at the door.

 

[Tommy]

We are definitely going down a slippery slope here, its pretty boring. I like the cut of this jacket, but not the leather. Collar seems a little too rounded and not quite pointy enough for a Dubow though. However it has lots of nice details and is clearly well made. Photos are very good and I think give you a clear picture of what you'd be getting. I actually think the AVI leather looks slightly better, even though I'm not a fan of their jackets as such. They're not as well cut as this one looks. Be interesting to see what this new lot do next? I did look to see specifically where these were made and couldn't find it, but I'm pretty tired right now.

Ken, like any good Celt, speaks his mind. With the exception of one comment against Diamond Dave that I thought I was snide, I never seen anything I really disagreed with. Plus you can get an Aero Horsehide A2 and £580, made by workers who are very well paid and who (if I remember reading right Ken's plans) are literally taking ownership of their business. Ken seems to get a slagging for speaking his mind about the manufacturing processes of others, while still keeping his prices about mid level. I think I'll leave any side debate at that.

 

[Silver Surfer]

"yes, mister deckard, she is a replicant."

 

[Juanito]

Boom, just ordered one in a russet size 44. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[Geeboo]

Which Dubow contract are they producing ?

 

[Juanito]

Which Dubow contract are they producing ?

27798 I would guess by the label. We'll see how close it is or if it an amalgamation of several.

 

[zoomer]

They will f up the collar because that type collar has not been made in forever, not even in shirts.