Cheap Chinese jackets at what cost ultimately?

[Spitfireace]

Ok I'm more of an Aero Scotland fan for their quality of product, ability to do custom sizing, top notch hides. Customer service. And all at a more reasonable price.

 

[Spitfireace]

lol like I said, hypothetically, I can change it to "Westwoman" if you like

I must be getting old what is a Westwoman?

 

[kirova]

I must be getting old what is a Westwoman?

the hypothetical opposite of an "Eastman"? (I guess my attempt at being witty had fallen flat on it's face..........)

and yeah, I have a few Aero jackets as well

 

[Spitfireace]

Oh ya here's this other thing. Do you want the Chinese government owning most of your 5G network. I know here in Canada I don't like this proposition since then they will have some control over our communications. As well we have two Canadians in prison in China because we apprehended the President of Huaweis daughter because of US expropriation treaty. Now we have two citizen in bad treatment in China who are hostages basically.

 

[Spitfireace]

I only started this thread because I felt that given the events of the recent I had to say something about buying into the whole Chinese government system. Didn't want it to be racist. Not my intention. There are so many great posts on this thread about the whole problem. Anyways stay well and we'll all get through this.

 

[Spitfireace]

The workers at Bronson and other garment manufacturers in China have a living to make and families to support like anyone else on the globe regardless of the wage or conditions. It's all they have available. Also kind of xenophobic to lump the common people / workers in with the wealthy Chi-Com overlords who dictate the country's policy's IMO. To pick and choose 'acceptable' goods to boycott depending upon one's immediate needs is also merely a 'feel-good' excersise in futility when closely examined IMO as well..

You see that we have a living to make and kids to feed perhaps? When they unleash a virus that makes our usual way of life impossible. It's an issue.

 

[Technonut2112]

You see that we have a living to make and kids to feed perhaps? When they unleash a virus that makes our usual way of life impossible. It's an issue.

Personally, I find it racist to hold the people of an entire country responsible, especially when they suffered immensely as well.

EDIT: To add, I would of course feel differently if the virus was intentionally spread by an act of malice / declared war, but it wasn't..

 

[Micawber]

Well, as I see it, in very general terms the larger the mass of people the lower the mass IQ. Therefore, in my opinion, it stands to reason that the collective population of this or that country are generally pretty shortsighted in outlook, the main concerns are being able to feed, clothe and house their families and have enough to be able to afford whatever luxuries and holidays they fancy .....and protect their own tribe. To that end they tend to buy with cost rather than longevity in mind, hence the popularity of cheap mass produced tat - much of which is produced in China.

In order to adjust the situation there will have to be a seismic change in consumerist mindset, a mindset that has become ingrained in western culture for decades.

I am also aware that understandibly China now seems to have become the big bad ogre, a position once filled by the Soviet Union / Russia. Each ideology usually needs a baddie to push against and blame for its own woes.

Grow local, produce local, buy local seems ideal, but I am not sure the ingrained consumerism of the west is able to come to terms with a return to those old ways.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Here's one of the problems...............

Back when I started making clothing, 1960s, I could walk from the Soho factory to any one of a dozen trimming suppliers and get anything we needed from stock
Fast forward ....to be precise.....to "the didital age", late 1990s Google etc when everything should have been easier and more efficient we needed a couple of thousand of a particular shoulder pad for a LVC contract.............nothing special, the sort I could have got in Great Portland Street from stock, or even in Berwick Market 30 years earlier
When I first asked the girls in the office when these will arrive, production had asked for these a fortnight earlier, I was told they'd contacted nearly a dozen suppliers in The Uk but had only one automated reply. I rung a few of these "suppliers" as by this time part made jackets were starting to pile up in the factory awaiting shoulder pads. No joy at all

Holly contacted a Chinese supplier, first time we'd tried China as I wasn't keen even then, a sample arrived in 36 hours, by the end of the week a carton of the correct pads arrived in Scotland, by which time one more British supplier had replied to state he could get them within a month

That is probably a major factor in the use of China to source parts. Since LVC went to a (much) cheaper supplier than Aero we have not used China to source anyuthing

 

[Micawber]

The 1960's-'80's saw a seed change in the ability of local producers to compete in ever increasing inter dependant global trade where cheap "foreign" raw materials and labour was set against ever increasing demands for improved conditions and pay in home markets - and rightly so in the latter case. As colonialism declined some less developed countries realised their own potential in raw materials and labour and stepped in to fill the demand for cheap export produce - often spurred by western input or / and their own political ideologies and goals.

Demonising entire nations is a dangerous path and is fodder for the IQ challenged masses, or those motivated by misguided patriotism / idealism to start calling for the whole demonised lot to be nuked off the face of the earth.

Humans are still essentially tribal, the urge to protect their own tribe is very strong - and often dangerous.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

The 1960's-'80's saw a seed change in the ability of local producers to compete in ever increasing inter dependant global trade where cheap "foreign" raw materials and labour was set against ever increasing demands for improved conditions and pay in home markets - and rightly so in the latter case. As colonialism declined some less developed countries realised their own potential in raw materials and labour and stepped in to fill the demand for cheap export produce - often spurred by western input or / and their own political ideologies and goals.

Demonising entire nations is a dangerous path and is fodder for the IQ challenged masses, or those motivated by misguided patriotism / idealism to start calling for the whole demonised lot to be nuked off the face of the earth.

Humans are still essentially tribal, the urge to protect their own tribe is very strong - and often dangerous.

I didn't mean to pinpoint China exclusively, rather Third World production in general ............and the poor efforts made in The UK at least to support businesses paying wages, taxes and rates in our own country
Proud to say Aero still uses the same British Mill / cloth supplier for our Trousers and most of our linings that I first used in 1967

 

[Micawber]

I didn't mean to pinpoint China exclusively, rather Third World production in general ............and the poor efforts made in The UK at least to support businesses paying wages, taxes and rates in our own country
Proud to say Aero still uses the same British Mill / cloth supplier for our Trousers and most of our linings that I first used in 1967

Understood Ken, I was driving at the same thing generally.

 

[ButteMT61]

I have anger pointing in many directions.
"China" I focus on as they are not honest with the data we are being given, and they are thieves of everyone's IP.
They have slave workers, and about zero EPA-type rules.
I feel for the people - I had two very close friends during my years at UCLA who were here getting their PhD's and I heard all of the stories he had back then - pre-internet days.

I am even more pissed at our country for outsourcing our jobs, industry, etc. It's like the cabal decided that they were going to drag the 1st world down to nothing so that an event just like this would be the final straw to bring us to our knees.

Now, we have businesses dying by the minute, people chomping at the bit for a Gubment Check, and basically giving up. Well done.

Had "we" kept an "us first" mentality, we could have continued helping other nations whilst maintaining our standard of living.

/rant

 

[Smithy]

Personally, I find it racist to hold the people of an entire country responsible, especially when they suffered immensely as well.

EDIT: To add, I would of course feel differently if the virus was intentionally spread by an act of malice / declared war, but it wasn't..

But this isn't about racism Techno. This is about a practice (wet markets) which happens to take place in a country (and actually countries, there's other places where this wet market stuff occurs) and how it has directly led to a global pandemic which not only will kill a multitude of people but threaten the world economy.

A lot of the arguments I've seen defending this sort of BS turn to cultural relativism - "they're a different culture than us and we have to respect it". The Inuits used to practice infanticide back in the day, the Romans casually chucked people to the lions, etc, etc. But no one now defends these practices. You can't defend morally repugnant behaviour and more importantly behavior which threatens the greater world with, "oh that's just the way they do stuff." You could use the same morally baseless argument to try and justify the Nazis exterminating Jews. Maybe I'm drawing a long bow with that example, but the principle stands. You can't defend morally reprehensible behaviour by waving it off to cultural differences.

I don't think all Chinese are responsible for this nor should they be punished for it. But there are certain communities in China and people involved in this wet market abomination who are. The Chinese government and authorities are complicit in allowing this to happen and continue and there should be an enormous response from the rest of the world until they stop it.

 

[B-Man2]

I was really trying to stay out of this discussion as there are a far greater number of life altering matters that should be of concern at the moment . Obliviously I’m going against my instincts . So...here it is. I agree with Tim . When cultural differences, regardless of what culture we may be discussing, become so destructive, that they threaten and result in the deaths of mass numbers of people from other cultures, then the world needs to stand up and take action . For example ... let’s not name a country, because I see some here consider it racist to do so, let’s just say that from now on the “Bat Eaters” of the world should be counseled and advised that this is no longer acceptable behavior in the opinion of the World Health Organization. Then from that point on, anyone who violates that standard should be subjected to the maximum extent of punishment by law..., what ever ever that punishment may be.. Why should the world population be made to suffer as it currently is, simply because one specific group of people feel they have the right to a cultural
practice that is for the most part restricted to a small part of that society .And while I’m engaging in this discussion, let me also say that with all due respect to those who may be of the opinion, that discussion or offering an opposing opinion on a subject like this is walking the line of racism, honestly guys, I think throwing out the racism card on a simple discussion like we are having here, this really doesn’t do justice to those who truly experience and are beset by racism on a daily basis. So please keep it mind that this is simply a discussion with opposing points of view . If you choose to engage in it and hear both sides of it, then throwing out the racism card only deters and diminishes any further discussion.
Cheers and good health wishes to all!

 

[Smithy]

Burt forgot to say it, but wash your hands fellas! ;-)

 

[Centaurus3200]

Here's where I think a lot of us would draw the line. Take the lychee dog meat festival. The vast majority here probably find it reprehensible. But it doesn't directly effect our well being across the globe. So you could argue to stay out of their business. If the wet markets are ultimately proven to be the source of this pandemic (most likely), then it IS our business.

 

[Smithy]

Here's where I think a lot of us would draw the line. Take the lychee dog meat festival. The vast majority here probably find it reprehensible. But it doesn't directly effect our well being across the globe. So you could argue to stay out of their business. If the wet markets are ultimately proven to be the source of this pandemic (most likely), then it IS our business.

It is now know that patient zero for COVID-19 came from the Wuhan wet market, even the Chinese have effectively admitted this. Sars arose from a wet market in Foshan in 2002.

Wet markets are not only morally questionable but hygienically dangerous because they facilitate the spread of exotic animal diseases to humans.

 

[ausreenactor]

Refrigeration and health standards are the issue. They can eat what they want as long as it sold under stricter guidelines.

 

[SuinBruin]

Refrigeration and health standards are the issue. They can eat what they want as long as it sold under stricter guidelines.

Watch this. The cultural reasons for the wet markets make refrigeration an unlikely remedy.