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Brand New Secondhand Goodwear...or is it?

herk115

Active Member
Folks,

I just scored a Goodwear on Ebay and after having worn it for just a few minutes, I'm having some doubts. Maybe I'm just used to that stiff but solid Lost Worlds I bought few weeks ago, but there just seems to be something wrong with this jacket.

1. The leather has a great patina. The seller said the patina was put there by the "veteran" who owned the jacket previously (said he got it at an estate sale), but the patina is equally visible underneath the pockets where there should logically be little or no patina, this being protected space. You know, the way it would look if the jacket was made of "pre-distressed" leather. And other than the patina, the leather seems very smooth and well-protected, almost as if it has some kind of protectant applied to it (which could be legit...somebody wanting to protect an expensive jacket). This is problematic because I would expect some roughness, chafing, even cracking from a jacket with this kind of patina.

2. The leather is supple. WAY too supple. Like it's not really horse hide. I have never had a jacket this supple.

3. A squadron patch is sewn to the left chest and the stitches go all the way through the lining as they would if the patch was added in the field. But I'm disturbed that the patina of the jacket continues right onto the patch. What I mean is that the patch has some dirt and soiling that would be indicative of heavy wear, but logic tells me if that were the case, a light cleaning would remove at least some of the dirt, but it hasn't. It's acting as if the soiling was part of the artwork of this patch.

4. The smell. I know this doesn't mean much, but when I smell the jacket I feel like I'm standing in a Wilson's House of Suede and Leather. It just doesn't smell right.

Otherwise, though, the workmanship is superb, all the correct snaps, zipper, hooks, knits, lining, etc. were used and nothing seems out of place as it would on a "mall" jacket. There is a USAAF-style generic Goodwear label exactly where the label ought to be. The jacket is a bit baggy put that means nothing, as it could have been a custom job for someone larger than me.

My question: did John ever make a "house" jacket like Eastman did? And did he ever make jackets using "pre-distressed" leather? Do I have a real Goodwear or have I descended into an expensive sucker hole? Photos coming, hopefully tomorrow.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
The jacket probably has a history here? What is the item number? Was it a recent listing? Should be able to back track through the feedbacks and verify its heritage? I am sure some of the early jackets could have been a trial hide? I would not think that anybody would be moving fake labels. If you can make a label might as well go a Poughkeepsie and push it as an original? Hard to comment just off the description..

Couchy
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
The seller has been involved in a few sales and buys recently. Many are the early GW offerings. I think another GW buy recently too?
Feedback total is a match.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V ... t=3&_rdc=1

Was his high bid, but no feedback left either way. Maybe a 'nudge' for a mate that went wrong? Personally I would not have paid retail for an older jacket..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Wear-Leath ... 7675.l2557

The item description pulls in the new cost of the current versions of the jackets and the pricing today. It is POSSIBLE it could have been one of the trial versions? The benefit of Paypal payment is the 'item not as described' option. If you feel that the description is not befitting of the jacket in hand, then you are entitled to seek resolution via the dispute/claim process. There is rather detailed no refund policy? I could understand the issues with sizing etc, but not for something poorly described or excluded.

Have you explained the situation to the seller? Have you contacted JC to verify the history of the jacket? And there is always that old Negative feedback. Kills the morale of sellers...trust me. Got my first one for an error listing. Nearly 1900 transactions in to get my first?

Good luck with it..

Couchy
 

Jaguar46

New Member
I seem to remember Johns early jackets used the Goodwear label. I would recommend emailing him for comments. He will know exactly what/when/how this jacket was made.
 

tater

New Member
He used a Goodwear label for Aero contracts before using "Acme," no? There was I thought a house jacket when I was shopping, but I want to say it was only in goat. <shrug>
 

herk115

Active Member
tater said:
He used a Goodwear label for Aero contracts before using "Acme," no? There was I thought a house jacket when I was shopping, but I want to say it was only in goat. <shrug>


Well, this certainly could be goat. How can I get in touch with John? E-mail him directly at Goodwear?
 

Jeff M

New Member
herk115 said:
tater said:
He used a Goodwear label for Aero contracts before using "Acme," no? There was I thought a house jacket when I was shopping, but I want to say it was only in goat. <shrug>


Well, this certainly could be goat. How can I get in touch with John? E-mail him directly at Goodwear?

You can email him directly at his Goodwear address;

[email protected]

or try sending him a PM here.
 

Andrew

Well-Known Member
That ligit, it's a type of oil pull cow hide that John used before he secured Horween horsehide. The patina changes depending on heat, rubbed, or being wet and appears old from the get go. I also have one that i'm in the process of selling.

John also tells me that the seller is a big customer of his.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
bseal said:
Just not horsehide as seller advertised. :|

Another Cow/Steer/Default drama.....Seller induced, obviosuly...Nooooooo! ;)
I would raise this with the seller and request the refund. Pending confirmation
from JC I would then go the Paypal route and get your money and the shipping
back. 'Where this is doubt there is no doubt!'

Seller has just listed another early GW and and ELC house with a NOS(WTF?)
zipper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastman-WW2-USA ... 2a26d8b4f1

Complete with ELC's repro Crown zipper literature? I thought the repros were on
all the ELC house A-2s these days? The puller is not pictured in detail? Has the
finish my ELC house Crown had? I think the seller is moving on up to new GWs,
so to speak and is displaying a preference of not letting the truth get in the way
of a good sale? I would not be going near his stuff personally. Especially with a
non existant refund policy.

Couchy
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
buzzthetower said:
The other fellow was quite apologetic after the forum member bought the cowhide A-2, and gave a discount on it because he thought the info was right (to the satisfaction of the buyer).

Heard 'through the grapevine' that all was resolved. Good to hear. Been bouncing around all the intertwined feedback, following the 'eBay Con Trails' ;) and just spied your feedback. I think his reputation was in need of a 'lift'. I would not normally get overly excited but this guy is STILL running the NOS zipper line on the ELC A-2. It is a great jacket and someone here is keen, and putting his money where his educated mind is. ;)

Couchy
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
ausreenactor said:
buzzthetower said:
The other fellow was quite apologetic after the forum member bought the cowhide A-2, and gave a discount on it because he thought the info was right (to the satisfaction of the buyer).

Heard 'through the grapevine' that all was resolved. Good to hear. Been bouncing around all the intertwined feedback, following the 'eBay Con Trails' ;) and just spied your feedback. I think his reputation was in need of a 'lift'. I would not normally get overly excited but this guy is STILL running the NOS zipper line on the ELC A-2. It is a great jacket and someone here is keen, and putting his money where his educated mind is. ;)

Couchy


The forum is lucky that as members we are able to enlighten our peers on a wide range of matters. While everybody can put across an opinion, we can only share one set of facts. We can take a look at those on eBay who have not had the priviledge of sharing jacket related information, and have a bit of a harmless chuckle. In the case where someone is spending what many would consider a small fortune on a leather jacket, it is prudent to air our concerns before we make a judgement. It is great that you were able to entertain the opinons of many across different countries in order to resolve the issue. I sometimes call a spade a spade; however, I never call a repro ELC Crown and NOS one... :p

Couchy
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
I have an old Goodwear with that same contract number, but it's more seal than russet and has a Crown zip.

Not sure what hide it is, but yeah, it's very supple and has a lot of patina.
 

herk115

Active Member
ausreenactor said:
buzzthetower said:
The other fellow was quite apologetic after the forum member bought the cowhide A-2, and gave a discount on it because he thought the info was right (to the satisfaction of the buyer).

Heard 'through the grapevine' that all was resolved. Good to hear. Been bouncing around all the intertwined feedback, following the 'eBay Con Trails' ;) and just spied your feedback. I think his reputation was in need of a 'lift'. I would not normally get overly excited but this guy is STILL running the NOS zipper line on the ELC A-2. It is a great jacket and someone here is keen, and putting his money where his educated mind is. ;)

Couchy


I have to say that once I contacted the seller he was, as was pointed out, very apologetic. He offered me the option of a full or partial refund and even let me decide what "partial" would mean. I decided to take a partial refund and keep the jacket because, once I found out John had indeed made the jacket, and because it fit so well, the hide issue was less important. I really want to emphasize to you guys that once I pointed out the discrepancy this seller bent over backwards to accommodate me and he seemed pretty honest and forthcoming. I really wouldn't have any problem doing business with him in the future. I can't say anything about his other sales, but I think he was honest when he said he didn't know it was cowhide. I assumed everything John made was horse or goat and was surprised when John told me this one was cow. I think the seller just made the same assumption I did, and he did everything he could to make it right once he found out we both assumed incorrectly (and you know what they say about "assuming"). I would say that if you guys are interested in his sales, just make sure you get the details clear with him ahead of time, and you won't have any problems. If I had any dough left I'd gladly buy from him again.
 
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