B-6 jacket made by John Chapman

[MaydayWei]

... And indeed it bothers me a bit not to have a historically correct label.

You buy a GW because you want 100% accuracy, don't you?
I think the answer is clear.

 

[FreddyF9]

You buy a GW because you want 100% accuracy, don't you?
I think the answer is clear.

I totally agree with you but, i think that the side zips on the Aero (Acme) looks so damn nice and useful. Shame for the label but there is nothing we can do

 

[blackrat2]

For me it would be the Arnof and ask John to do a combat clone, minus the ageing process

 

[Kermit3D]

You buy a GW because you want 100% accuracy, don't you?
I think the answer is clear.

Yes, it weighs heavily in the balance.

I totally agree with you but, i think that the side zips on the Aero (Acme) looks so damn nice and useful. Shame for the label but there is nothing we can do

I wonder how practical these zippers on the sides are when you sit in the car for example.
JC should be able to tell me more.

For me it would be the Arnof and ask John to do a combat clone, minus the ageing process

I hadn't thought of that at all !
Would it involve having slightly less precise seams ? When you think about it, it's crazy to get to that point... but if it's in the direction of authenticity, I'm ok with it.
I'm also thinking about taking the NOS zipper option.

 

[mulceber]

Would it involve having slightly less precise seams ?

Yep, exactly - JC attempting to replicate the slap-dash work of a factory worker that had already sewn that same stitch a hundred times that day, and needed to sew it several hundred times more before he could go home at the end of the day.

 

[blackrat2]

What Jan says, if poss go Nos for sure

 

[ausreenactor]

I would avoid zippers for wear and tear on car seats.....

Just an opinion..

 

[Smithy]

Would it involve having slightly less precise seams ?

Originals don't have the laser straight seams or symmetry that you'll see on the best repros.

Aesthetics didn't come into the equation for a piece of military kit to pass inspection. So long as it could perform the function for which it was intended and constructed solidly enough to perform that function under combat conditions for a reasonable timeframe, that was actually enough. That's why pockets being higher than the other side, wonky stitching (so long as it didn't affect the strength of the garment), hardware not being completely lined up was completely fine.

These were being knocked out at a hell of a rate in factory conditions and with urgency - there was a war on and they had to get this kit out so the boys could fight it.

 

[Micawber]

Originals don't have the laser straight seams or symmetry that you'll see on the best repros.

Aesthetics didn't come into the equation for a piece of military kit to pass inspection. So long as it could perform the function for which it was intended and constructed solidly enough to perform that function under combat conditions for a reasonable timeframe, that was actually enough. That's why pockets being higher than the other side, wonky stitching (so long as it didn't affect the strength of the garment), hardware not being completely lined up was completely fine.

These were being knocked out at a hell of a rate in factory conditions and with urgency - there was a war on and they had to get this kit out so the boys could fight it.

Correct. Also remember the end user didn't have a chance to spend days endlessly pontificating over what garment maker / contract would suit them better ...there again said end user were not expected to sink a pretty large stack of currency into buying said garment either

 

[Kermit3D]

Correct. Also remember the end user didn't have a chance to spend days endlessly pontificating over what garment maker / contract would suit them better ...there again said end user were not expected to sink a pretty large stack of currency into buying said garment either

This is absolutely true.
I think if fighter pilots/bomber crews saw us spending that much money and nitpicking about details of a jacket, they'd think we were crazy...
... and they would be right.

Prefer the Acme (Aero). John made up Acme to use instead of Aero because the Aero name is copyrighted. Confused me too at first. I thought it had something to do with the Road Runner.

And to add to the confusion, I thought there was an obvious connection to Acme Depot.

 

[FreddyF9]

Yes, it weighs heavily in the balance.



I wonder how practical these zippers on the sides are when you sit in the car for example.
JC should be able to tell me more.



I hadn't thought of that at all !
Would it involve having slightly less precise seams ? When you think about it, it's crazy to get to that point... but if it's in the direction of authenticity, I'm ok with it.
I'm also thinking about taking the NOS zipper option.

I used to have a jacket with side adjustment zips like just like the B-6 (also similar length) and I found them very useful when sitting (especially in a car), never had any seat scratching issues and I used to wear it in my grandpa’s small Fiat 500. I must say, however that I never owned a B-6 (yet) so it could be different.

 

[Smithy]

This is absolutely true.
I think if fighter pilots/bomber crews saw us spending that much money and nitpicking about details of a jacket, they'd think we were crazy...
... and they would be right.
'

I've been lucky to have known and also been in correspondence with quite a number of aircrew from the war and not one of them was even vaguely interested in the jackets nor their flying kit that they used. These things were tools, nothing more, nothing less. Nearly everyone of them was far more proud of their best dress uniform, and this is understandable, it shows the service they served in, the campaign medals which showed their operational experience and if they had them, their gallantry and combat awards which obviously displayed that they'd been at the sharp end and rose to the task.

It's only weirdos like us who are into all this silly nonsense

 

[mulceber]

I've been lucky to have known and also been in correspondence with quite a number of aircrew from the war and not one of them was even vaguely interested in the jackets nor their flying kit that they used. These things were tools, nothing more, nothing less. Nearly everyone of them was far more proud of their best dress uniform, and this is understandable, it shows the service they served in, the campaign medals which showed their operational experience and if they had them, their gallantry and combat awards which obviously displayed that they'd been at the sharp end and rose to the task.

It's only weirdos like us who are into all this silly nonsense

All true. That being said, just because they had no interest in their flight gear doesn’t mean it’s wrong for us to be interested. It’s valuable to remember that they didn’t care for the sake of keeping a sense of perspective, but it shouldn’t stop us from discussing the details. My interest in this hobby is as much about how these garments were made as it is about what the pilots did with them, so the knitty-gritty details are always worth my time.

 

[Smithy]

All true. That being said, just because they had no interest in their flight gear doesn’t mean it’s wrong for us to be interested. It’s valuable to remember that they didn’t care for the sake of keeping a sense of perspective, but it shouldn’t stop us from discussing the details. My interest in this hobby is as much about how these garments were made as it is about what the pilots did with them, so the knitty-gritty details are always worth my time.

No definitely not a case of there being anything wrong with us being interested Jan!

But you have to admit there is a wonderful and delicious irony that the men who used these things for the most part couldn't give a flying firetruck about them whilst we agonise over the most minute details.

Once again though you can see why a dress uniform for them is and was far more important because it conveys service, rank, operational experience and possibly exemplary action during combat service. It's also why for the most part dress uniforms were treasured and cared for better than flying kit.

Flying kit was a tool used to get the job done. Most aircrew I have found have treated their flying kit much the same way as a groundcrew member would have treated the tools he worked with and that's really what these things were - tools. These guys were risking their lives and being shot at a great deal, they had far bigger things to think and worry about than the colour of their flying jacket and if the sleeves were 1/2 inch short.

Utilitarian tools for them, objects of much hand wringing for us

 

[mulceber]

But you have to admit there is a wonderful and delicious irony that the men who used these things for the most part couldn't give a flying firetruck about them whilst we agonise over the most minute details.

Oh absolutely. I’m sure most of them would be flabbergasted at what their old flight gear is worth today. All while their dress uniforms are a topic many (most?) of us care very little about!

 

[Smithy]

Oh absolutely. I’m sure most of them would be flabbergasted at what their old flight gear is worth today. All while their dress uniforms are a topic many (most?) of us care very little about!

Don't laugh though Jan. Dress uniforms with provenance and especially those with original gallantry ribbons fetch a lot more money than any flying jacket ever will.

Us fellas here on VLJ have an exceedingly niche interest even compared to the wider yet still very specialised militaria world and market.

 

[mulceber]

Good to know! Not my interest, but as we’ve already established my/our interest is exceedingly niche, so who would I be to judge?

 

[entertainment]

I have an Acme from JC. Does the difference in name bother me a little? Yes, to be honest. But I would still take it over the Arnoff. I don't like the position of the leather tabs at the base of the zipper on the Arnoff.

And the side zips of the Aero are really cool. Side straps were used on so many jackets. I have never had any problems with the side zips catching on anything. If there is anyone who owns a B-6 with side zips and has had a problem, I would be interested to hear, but I have a theory that this objection is mostly theoretical rather than real.

 

[Kermit3D]

I have an Acme from JC. Does the difference in name bother me a little? Yes, to be honest. But I would still take it over the Arnoff. I don't like the position of the leather tabs at the base of the zipper on the Arnoff.

And the side zips of the Aero are really cool. Side straps were used on so many jackets. I have never had any problems with the side zips catching on anything. If there is anyone who owns a B-6 with side zips and has had a problem, I would be interested to hear, but I have a theory that this objection is mostly theoretical rather than real.

Thanks for your feedback.
I agree, the Aero contract with the Zippers on the size is very nice. And it's probably the most practical in use.
But I still have a preference for the Arnoff contract, which is less common.

 

[Kermit3D]

All true. That being said, just because they had no interest in their flight gear doesn’t mean it’s wrong for us to be interested. It’s valuable to remember that they didn’t care for the sake of keeping a sense of perspective, but it shouldn’t stop us from discussing the details. My interest in this hobby is as much about how these garments were made as it is about what the pilots did with them, so the knitty-gritty details are always worth my time.

I think it's the nature of any passion, to approach things in an "extreme" way and it often seems a bit ridiculous to some people.
But I am convinced that it is one of the most beautiful aspects of human beings, to be able to be passionate about sometimes very unexpected subjects.

And maybe (probably) World War II pilots and bomber crews would be proud to see that they arouse so much passion.