Brettafett
Well-Known Member
I believe so, but I'd drop AVI an email and make sure...
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AVI LTHR Bronco updated 2019 version
- Thread starter Brettafett
- Start date
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
New Bronco up on website...
https://www.avileather.com/product/a2-flight-jacket-seal-brown-bronco/
https://www.avileather.com/product/a2-flight-jacket-seal-brown-bronco/
Changeling
Active Member
Looks a lot better in the pocket flaps. I see on the site the russet jacket still seems to show the older version in the photos. Veg tanned goatskin for 379 Euros, looks good but a little too small for me in the largest size.
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
Since I already had to start resewing the pocket flaps of my AVI G1 2nd generation I will keep my hands off any further purchase from them ...
Did not yet happen with my 5* G1 or A2
Did not yet happen with my 5* G1 or A2
Steve27752
Well-Known Member
Not for me.
herk115
Active Member
Currently I have 4 ELCs and 2 GWs in my closet. I have owned RMNZ in the past. Now, nothing against GW, ELC, Aero, BK...they're all good guys, easy to work with, and make fine products. But as was pointed out above, on even my most high-end, expensive, perfectly made repro, I have found flaws. My current crop of ELCs and GWs have flaws, either in the physical assembly, or the fact that they just don't look any better than a $500 mid-range jacket from eBay. Also, as has been pointed out above, I don't dare stick a needle into a $1000+ USD jacket, which actually robs me of some of the authenticity and enjoyment of the jacket. Face it, folks, an A-2 without name strip, rank, and squadron patch is kinda boring. But I have no problem "patching" a cheaper mid-range jacket. So the net result? My last two purchases have been Gibson & Barnes, and I'm quite happy with them. Be realistic: even most of us hard core collectors can't tell the difference between a good mid-range and a high-end from farther than three or four feet away. And the differences we do spot are, for less hard core collectors, very trivial. If we hadn't put so much of our lives into studying A-2 jackets, even us hard core guys wouldn't care about these minor differences, if we even noticed them. So to answer the question, you bet your ever lovin' A I'll choose other, less expensive makers. By the formula presented above, with my G&B I get 90% of the jacket (or more) for 40% (or less) of the cost. It's a no-brainer.
And just FYI, a couple years ago I bought a Pro-Tech A-2 on eBay for $80. You never heard of them either? Guess what? It looks awesome!
Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
I have written to AVI and asked why they do not sell an A2 in Horsehide or Steerhide ,and they asked me whats wrong with goatskin . I told them it does not age so if it does not age it does not gain character . I sent him a picture of a repro A2 with some serious wear ,which he did not reply to . Goat is fine for a G1 but they have been made with cowhide for 40 years made to look like goat with machine impress faux stamping . I do not like goatskin I like horse or cowhide ,if the AVI company were to make one out of these skins I would probably get one .I have had GW ELC ,G&B,SMW,LW,Buzz Rickson none of them have been perfect my Favs have been SMW and Lost Worlds A2 .
BIP
BIP
MeachamLake
Well-Known Member
Pattern grading is still totally weird on all of AVI's jackets. Shame as they look nice!
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
They have a horsehide Perry on the way... Apparently it'll go into production soon, now that the Bronco is available.
I guess the grading is weird, as they have one original, in one size to work from. Gotta start somewhere....
I guess the grading is weird, as they have one original, in one size to work from. Gotta start somewhere....
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
'Gotta start somewhere....' The nail on the head, these guys don't have the knowledge like the mainstream top end producers. ELC, GW and Aero for instance have history and experience due to the knowledge they've accrued and the desire for accuracy from what probably started as a hobby. Can these newbies really see the subtle differences between contracts, much like the man on the street (or my missus for that matter!) to turn out faithful repros? I get the impression they are just pandering to requests based on orders based on making a sale and, profit. I'll be very surprised if in a few years time they'll be offering several 'maker' A2's, probably maybe just a generic house version. Yes I know it's a budget thing but some of the flag waving seen so far has yet to be justified from the evidence I've seen, sorry if that offends some but as I said earlier, not for me. If you're gonna do something do it right!
Technonut2112
Well-Known Member
Then instead of trolling budget threads, offer some alternatives for folks in their price range to be helpful. Constantly berating threads offering budget jackets do not help others who simply cannot afford, or even entertain saving up the $1000.00 + USD for a detailed premium maker. The only other reasonably detailed jacket in a lower price range that I'm aware of is Platon's Dubow at $500.00 USD + shipping and a 4+ month wait.
I'm sure that folks interested in a budget jacket are quite aware that some details found on the more expensive offerings will not be present, hence the budget cost. There are usually plenty of pics in these threads as well. It serves no purpose to troll threads offering budget jackets that do not interest you in the least.. If you don't like them, fine... there's no reason to go on pointing out exactly what makes them able to be offered at the lower prices. There seems to be quite a few members interested in, and actually purchasing many of the budget jackets offered in various threads on this forum (I'm one of them). As long as they are satisfied and happy with their purchases, why rain on their parade?
EDIT: I'm not posting about this AVI jacket in particular.. Personally, I think they can do a bit better for the price, considering that they have an original to work with, but I also take into consideration that others may like it, and is within their price-range. I'm speaking about posts I've seen in other budget jacket threads on the forum as well..
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Bombing IP
Well-Known Member
Technonut you make some very good points . I am one who is an A2 lover but not at the prices they are at now .That said the lower end makers can do better because they need to imitate the tailoring style (folds cuts stiching assembly style etc) this costs no money at all just need attention to detail . Fancy leather is not important as it was not important in WW2 nor was perfection .What is important is the specific company manufacturing culture style that need to be duplicated ,and this is where AVI and many other companies fail . They need to invest in original A2 WW2 originals and Sherlock Holmes the jacket that's your R&D all done for you.
Me I will buy jackets used as I know my measurements this has 3 pluses ,
(1) you save 75%
(2) Some of the leather character provoking has been done for you
(3) Resale does not hurt and you will get close to what you paid for it .
The birth of the Platon Dubow in my opinion has an effect on the used market no longer is is it a good deal to get a premium jacket for 50% of $1500 used .When you can get a Platon Dubow for $500 new and your size ,no brainer ?.
BIP
Me I will buy jackets used as I know my measurements this has 3 pluses ,
(1) you save 75%
(2) Some of the leather character provoking has been done for you
(3) Resale does not hurt and you will get close to what you paid for it .
The birth of the Platon Dubow in my opinion has an effect on the used market no longer is is it a good deal to get a premium jacket for 50% of $1500 used .When you can get a Platon Dubow for $500 new and your size ,no brainer ?.
BIP
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
As I said, sorry I'm not berating or trying to rain on anyone's parade and I've even praised Platons Dubow plus I'm the first to admit the usual suspects top end jackets are without doubt we'll overpriced IMO these days yet, they still sell and get snapped up pretty quickly when sold used. All I really was trying to suggest was that I doubt these low budget producers will ever see the subtle nuances in 'maker ' styles because accuracy is probably not their desire in the same way it has been for the big boys whose time, effort and research (and desire based on personal interest) has/is still clearly paying off for them. However, for those who are happy to buy a 'less faithful' repro then you pay your money you takes your choice and again I don't say that as a put down, but even at at the keen prices offered I get the impression it's a gamble what you'll end up with. I very much doubt we'll ever see any of these budget jackets in years to come being mistaken for an original like some ELC's and GW's have.
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
Do wanna be one of those “tyre-kickers” always pointing out negatives but my impression so far is:
AVI does not perform an effective “supplier management” - means they order some stuff - maybe tell their manufacturer about changes and then they deal with whatever they get
New supplier they always claim as “updated versions” but actually the new supplier simply has its own way to see how a A2 needs to look like
There is no kinda “quality check” on their jackets this is why on several G1 the zipper broke (like on mine and in Brett’s) and this is also why for example the pocket flap of mine already started to separate.
Since we have Shawn being active in our forum we have an slight idea about pricing in Pak - and due to the fact Shawn also needs some profit for his staff and himself with a bit of math we might estimate the manufacturing costs for such a jacket. AVI simply takes their purchase price in double with some extra and we pay for it.
Bottom line again:
In the very beginning I was highly satisfied with my AVI G1 1st generation which ended when the zipper broke and in return they sent me a completely different jacket (shorter collar, different leather graining, etc etc etc) and when I asked them for one of the initial production run they just claimed the new version is better which did not work out for me.
I do not wanna dump a sh.. in anyone’s garden but for me AVI is outta my further consideration when thinking about ordering a new jacket.
AVI does not perform an effective “supplier management” - means they order some stuff - maybe tell their manufacturer about changes and then they deal with whatever they get
New supplier they always claim as “updated versions” but actually the new supplier simply has its own way to see how a A2 needs to look like
There is no kinda “quality check” on their jackets this is why on several G1 the zipper broke (like on mine and in Brett’s) and this is also why for example the pocket flap of mine already started to separate.
Since we have Shawn being active in our forum we have an slight idea about pricing in Pak - and due to the fact Shawn also needs some profit for his staff and himself with a bit of math we might estimate the manufacturing costs for such a jacket. AVI simply takes their purchase price in double with some extra and we pay for it.
Bottom line again:
In the very beginning I was highly satisfied with my AVI G1 1st generation which ended when the zipper broke and in return they sent me a completely different jacket (shorter collar, different leather graining, etc etc etc) and when I asked them for one of the initial production run they just claimed the new version is better which did not work out for me.
I do not wanna dump a sh.. in anyone’s garden but for me AVI is outta my further consideration when thinking about ordering a new jacket.
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Yes, it can't be easy... Fair points above. But at least they are trying.
I remember back in 2001, my first ELCs... They were baggy, drooping shoulders, floppy knit, two identical size RWs were quite different in fit. I had to order a size down, 38s, but they were way too short. ELC has come a ways since then, pattern updates, better leathers and knit etc... Plus, I've heard of a few broken zips on ELC jackets... Not all the hooklesss ones (I almost broke an HLBs at Duxford last year)... I had a GW arrive after 1.5 years with sleeves 1 inch shorter the Id ordered. Granted John took it back, but I was left without a jacket. Even Aero, I've had a great 15142, a Bronco which had a pocket fall off. Another with lopsided collar and another which arrived totally wrong hide. If these 'big' guys can make oopses, why not AVI? Its not like they are charging $1000
Their first supplier, 'copied' their original jackets (as best as those guys knew how) and gave the patterns out all over Pakistan
Bet they didn't plan for that.
Shawn's jackets look very nice, well made and neat for sure. And for the price, well-worth a punt if you're up for it.
But AVI were the guys who bought the original vintage jackets that all these patterns came from. With the intention to make a decent original maker repros, something I've been hoping for for years... And they found a way to make them at an affordable price. But theres a learning curve, exactly as mentioned above. These guys in that part of the world have skills, but there are nuances and detailing they need to learn to make these jackets properly. Skills the UK and US guys have taken decades to learn themselves...
I still have my V1 Bronco, I love it. Although its missing some detailing, its a great Bronco repro.
My first gen G-1 is my go-too cool weather jacket. My zipper did not break, but the puller was on the wrong side. I replaced the knit and had the zipper puller placed on the correct side, and wallah! I love it. Its looking superb, the grain has really popped out and its wearing in very well.
I believe there is a 'new' supplier who is making the horsehide Perry, I also know they are upgrading the knit parts, because thats always been a bug-bare for me...
The new Bronco? Well, I have not yet seen it. At a glance it looks like the previous version (which was nice enough)... I wish they'd used an olive drab thread and lighter knits, but lets see once jackets in hand. I agree that they should do this in horsehide also. Maybe they will.
In any case, gotta start somewhere and at least from my experience, the jackets are good... Not perfect. Yet. But they do seem to be motivated to improve. They're still around... and have certainly invested a lot already.
I am sure there are some who would sleep better if AVI left the scene. I for one hope they don't... We need them, and Shawn, and Platon...
Support where you can. Let them know your issues, so they can improve...
I remember back in 2001, my first ELCs... They were baggy, drooping shoulders, floppy knit, two identical size RWs were quite different in fit. I had to order a size down, 38s, but they were way too short. ELC has come a ways since then, pattern updates, better leathers and knit etc... Plus, I've heard of a few broken zips on ELC jackets... Not all the hooklesss ones (I almost broke an HLBs at Duxford last year)... I had a GW arrive after 1.5 years with sleeves 1 inch shorter the Id ordered. Granted John took it back, but I was left without a jacket. Even Aero, I've had a great 15142, a Bronco which had a pocket fall off. Another with lopsided collar and another which arrived totally wrong hide. If these 'big' guys can make oopses, why not AVI? Its not like they are charging $1000
Their first supplier, 'copied' their original jackets (as best as those guys knew how) and gave the patterns out all over Pakistan
Bet they didn't plan for that.Shawn's jackets look very nice, well made and neat for sure. And for the price, well-worth a punt if you're up for it.
But AVI were the guys who bought the original vintage jackets that all these patterns came from. With the intention to make a decent original maker repros, something I've been hoping for for years... And they found a way to make them at an affordable price. But theres a learning curve, exactly as mentioned above. These guys in that part of the world have skills, but there are nuances and detailing they need to learn to make these jackets properly. Skills the UK and US guys have taken decades to learn themselves...
I still have my V1 Bronco, I love it. Although its missing some detailing, its a great Bronco repro.
My first gen G-1 is my go-too cool weather jacket. My zipper did not break, but the puller was on the wrong side. I replaced the knit and had the zipper puller placed on the correct side, and wallah! I love it. Its looking superb, the grain has really popped out and its wearing in very well.
I believe there is a 'new' supplier who is making the horsehide Perry, I also know they are upgrading the knit parts, because thats always been a bug-bare for me...
The new Bronco? Well, I have not yet seen it. At a glance it looks like the previous version (which was nice enough)... I wish they'd used an olive drab thread and lighter knits, but lets see once jackets in hand. I agree that they should do this in horsehide also. Maybe they will.
In any case, gotta start somewhere and at least from my experience, the jackets are good... Not perfect. Yet. But they do seem to be motivated to improve. They're still around... and have certainly invested a lot already.
I am sure there are some who would sleep better if AVI left the scene. I for one hope they don't... We need them, and Shawn, and Platon...
Support where you can. Let them know your issues, so they can improve...
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Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
Seen it from this perspective you are right Brett
