Persimmon
Well-Known Member
...and bonkers with it, apparently
No .... just barking crazy
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AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics
- Thread starter Brettafett
- Start date
No .... just barking crazy
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
The all time best EVER TV Moments?
1. Soap (Mary's Green Baby era)
2.The Cheviot The Stag and The Black Black Oil (BBC 1974)
3. Faulty Towers
Dr H
Well-Known Member
er...Soap was American...
Teddy
Well-Known Member
Oops. Then it's also an age thing.
Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
Interesting development, I just received an email to tell me the image on the Amazon listing has been photoshopped with a 5 Star Label covering the Bronco label. Sure enough, overnight.
Coincidence?
What was it that Marcellus said in Hamlet?
Coincidence?
What was it that Marcellus said in Hamlet?
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
I only smell fermenting grapes... sad when an vintage turns sour....
Smithy
Well-Known Member
nkang, let's summarise shall we...
- AVI LTHR jackets are made in Pakistan.
- Ken has packed a sad about AVI LTHR because some people are interested in buying from them as they think new A-2s from some of the repro makers are overpriced, and he's not very happy about it.
- Others are pissed off that the jackets are made on the Subcontinent and think that members shouldn't buy jackets made in those countries.
- Still other members don't give a shit about it either way.
Moral of the story? Buy what you like from who the hell you like. No-one, not another member nor even the head of a company who makes these repros has the right nor the moral prerogative to tell anyone what they should buy and certainly who they should or shouldn't buy from. If you happen to not like a maker don't buy from them.
And if we're going to quote Shakespeare here's one which sums this whole kerfuffle up:
"Much ado about nothing."
- AVI LTHR jackets are made in Pakistan.
- Ken has packed a sad about AVI LTHR because some people are interested in buying from them as they think new A-2s from some of the repro makers are overpriced, and he's not very happy about it.
- Others are pissed off that the jackets are made on the Subcontinent and think that members shouldn't buy jackets made in those countries.
- Still other members don't give a shit about it either way.
Moral of the story? Buy what you like from who the hell you like. No-one, not another member nor even the head of a company who makes these repros has the right nor the moral prerogative to tell anyone what they should buy and certainly who they should or shouldn't buy from. If you happen to not like a maker don't buy from them.
And if we're going to quote Shakespeare here's one which sums this whole kerfuffle up:
"Much ado about nothing."
Teddy
Well-Known Member
@Smithy Thanks for the notes. I take this as an opportunity to change my stance while helping you see that I'm not hostile to AVI supporters:
- I share your sentiment about overpricing from premium brands.
- I'm starting to think that AVI was already reading the forum when the provenance issue was raised (Cannot prove it so it's my individual, unfounded speculation).
- Ken's competitors are premium brands not low- to mid-entry players; I think he's defending what he believes to be the right way to do business. I happen to share his belief and I support symmetry in transaction rather than asymmetry.
- I don't believe in freedom of choice as some of you interpreted it, because we all have the responsibility for our actions (the closest analogy I can think of is that a child cannot be free without some discipline from the parents); but I believe you and everyone is entitled to his or her opinions and actions, buying decisions, and the right to express your agreement/disagreement with anyone.
- My point of view is that I cannot be sure I don't kill a few ants every time I go for a walk, but if I saw an ant, I would make sure I did not step on it. Man, I grew up in China and have done plenty bad to the planet and seen some bad aspects of society. Nobody can be 100% environmental friendly or fair trade, but when we see something wrong, I believe and hope that each and everyone of us can do something about it.
- But just because I believe in the point above does not mean I demand you or anyone on the forum to do what I believe in. If someone finds my opinion agreeable, great; if not, that's perfectly fine! It's about me, my choice, my responsibility for the planet and others, and my buying decisions. It's not about you but it might sting some people because I point to the more difficult aspect of consumerism, responsibility vs. desire (often under tight budget).
- All I ask is we can keep debating or discussing friendly and disclosing information so all can see and read before buying. Hope this clarifies it!
- I share your sentiment about overpricing from premium brands.
- I'm starting to think that AVI was already reading the forum when the provenance issue was raised (Cannot prove it so it's my individual, unfounded speculation).
- Ken's competitors are premium brands not low- to mid-entry players; I think he's defending what he believes to be the right way to do business. I happen to share his belief and I support symmetry in transaction rather than asymmetry.
- I don't believe in freedom of choice as some of you interpreted it, because we all have the responsibility for our actions (the closest analogy I can think of is that a child cannot be free without some discipline from the parents); but I believe you and everyone is entitled to his or her opinions and actions, buying decisions, and the right to express your agreement/disagreement with anyone.
- My point of view is that I cannot be sure I don't kill a few ants every time I go for a walk, but if I saw an ant, I would make sure I did not step on it. Man, I grew up in China and have done plenty bad to the planet and seen some bad aspects of society. Nobody can be 100% environmental friendly or fair trade, but when we see something wrong, I believe and hope that each and everyone of us can do something about it.
- But just because I believe in the point above does not mean I demand you or anyone on the forum to do what I believe in. If someone finds my opinion agreeable, great; if not, that's perfectly fine! It's about me, my choice, my responsibility for the planet and others, and my buying decisions. It's not about you but it might sting some people because I point to the more difficult aspect of consumerism, responsibility vs. desire (often under tight budget).
- All I ask is we can keep debating or discussing friendly and disclosing information so all can see and read before buying. Hope this clarifies it!
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Ken at Aero Leather
Well-Known Member
Post #214 2BM2K.........and they've both chosen the same inspection stamp number AN198
Paddy Power would make that a 999-1 shot.
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Smithy
Well-Known Member
And therein lies the problem with all this, AVI LTHR to the best of anyone's knowledge hasn't done anything wrong.
And Ken, the more you go on and on about this, the more you actually make me want to buy my next A-2 from AVI LTHR. You're starting to come across as the big established kid on the block trying to bully the new kid and anyone thinking of doing business with them. I've never been a fan of bullies and this sort of sourpuss blithering on only makes me want to support the new guy even more. Maybe give it a rest already, you've made your point but harping on about it isn't going to convert anyone who hasn't been already.
Teddy
Well-Known Member
@Smithy You'd have to define what "doing something wrong" is to you. To me, I previously assumed AVI jackets are made in Denmark until pointed out by another member of TFL. AVI had an entire year of operations since I knew the brand before finally putting out its statements. It's a year of asymmetrical information. I assumed they weren't aware of VLJ or TFL's discussion. But I'm not sure anymore. If I started a leather jacket business myself, I would point out the provenance of my products (why else have I seen so many Made In China labels? There must be a good reason to add it). I don't know if it's illegal to deliberately avoid a Made In X label, but some of us would see it as wrong already because of the asymmetry in the ensuing transactions. That's my definition of what is wrong, but if it's not wrong to you that's fine, too.
Teddy
Well-Known Member
And guys, if I were Ken and I had been in this business for decades well knowing consumers' sentiment, I'd know I won't win any of your hearts by arguing against what I see as a bad business practice. Heck, if my sole purpose were to lure your money to my pocket, I'd compliment the new player, gain your approval, and then subtly add my advertisements. Why bother arguing against you? It's not smart at all and a businessman who survives decades is probably not stupid.
So like I said earlier, Ken's persistence is because of skin in the game and not sour grapes. You'd be confusing the competitive landscape if you think Aero can be threatened by AVI. The products that drive the bulk of their respective revenues aren't even the same type.
So like I said earlier, Ken's persistence is because of skin in the game and not sour grapes. You'd be confusing the competitive landscape if you think Aero can be threatened by AVI. The products that drive the bulk of their respective revenues aren't even the same type.
Geeboo
Well-Known Member
AVI does not produce the same standard of jacket as Aero do - AVI is still 3-4 par behind, at least. IMO [quality-wise], AVI is a tiny notch Below that from Bronson's leather jacket but equipped with larger sizes [ just judged from photos - I own Neither]
Look at AVI's A1 cutting/ pattern - so weird, many things are wrong, a total lack of sense of beauty of the producer - just look so cheap.
agree #276 " Ken's persistence is because of skin in the game and not sour grapes. "
Look at AVI's A1 cutting/ pattern - so weird, many things are wrong, a total lack of sense of beauty of the producer - just look so cheap.
agree #276 " Ken's persistence is because of skin in the game and not sour grapes. "
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Southoftheborder
Well-Known Member
Actually I think it's possible and legal to not put the actual place of manufacture on the garment as long as some assembly or 'finishing' is done in the in the country it's sold from. That finishing doesn't have to be much either and some English shoe makers use that loophole for some of their cheaper lines. Or did anyway. Designed in the UK or any other country is another weasel worded way around a product that could have been made anywhere.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I'm bowing out of this thread now, it's gone on too long and is in danger of generating bad blood (already has in some ways).
Once again and it feels like a million years ago but thanks Brett for taking the time to write a review of this jacket, taking the photos and for posting it here, much appreciated.
Once again and it feels like a million years ago but thanks Brett for taking the time to write a review of this jacket, taking the photos and for posting it here, much appreciated.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Man!!
I can’t believe that this thread started out with a simple review of a jacket that someone liked and wanted to tell us about and 14 pages of comments later here we are. Not really sure what that says about us as a group other than do we all have a little too much free time on our hands?
I can’t believe that this thread started out with a simple review of a jacket that someone liked and wanted to tell us about and 14 pages of comments later here we are. Not really sure what that says about us as a group other than do we all have a little too much free time on our hands?
