Pilot
Well-Known Member
Moderator! please remove.
Another spamer!
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Another Erich Hartmann flight jacket
- Thread starter Pilot
- Start date
Another spamer!
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
Very Nice. I have one (1944) that has all the wiring intact.
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
oops..... one too many pics
Steve27752
Well-Known Member
Welcome to VLJ. By way of an introduction, why not post a bit about yourself here.
http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/forums/member-bios.21/
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention that this jacket was I believe issued to Otto Schultz JG51
Pilot
Well-Known Member
Almost your Name...Lucky you!
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
I tried to find out if we were related when I met him. Horst Petzschler introduced me to him. (they were best friends) But my part of the family left Prussia in the 1600's, I was only able to track down my family when they entered the USA and that was further complicated because when my grandfather was born in 1880 in a covered wagon crossing Texas and Oklahoma the last name was misspelled and so our family here is related to Shults and Schultz.
He was unable to find out anything either because a great deal of his family side info was destroyed during WW2. Interesting side note.......Horst Petzschler Oberfeldwebel and I had been very good friends ever since his son Patrick was born. I had promised Herr Petzschler that I would do a battle scene painting for him of one of his exploits. When I did the piece and was almost completed I was to drive up to Kansas and have Horst sign off on it and it was to go to the Museum in New Orleans. Sadly, Patrick informed me that his father had passed away that very week I was to go up there in 2011. Otto Schultz died in 2013.
He was unable to find out anything either because a great deal of his family side info was destroyed during WW2. Interesting side note.......Horst Petzschler Oberfeldwebel and I had been very good friends ever since his son Patrick was born. I had promised Herr Petzschler that I would do a battle scene painting for him of one of his exploits. When I did the piece and was almost completed I was to drive up to Kansas and have Horst sign off on it and it was to go to the Museum in New Orleans. Sadly, Patrick informed me that his father had passed away that very week I was to go up there in 2011. Otto Schultz died in 2013.
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
Thanks, just pulled out the RAF one and took a pic. I have been dumping out stuff this morning
from my storage tubs to find things.
from my storage tubs to find things.Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
Here is another private purchase.
I do not own a NCO Luftwaffe visor and the cloth pilot's badge is not sewn on. I also do not own a German Cross. This jacket took some time to restore. It had paint splattered all over it and the leather was heavily scratched etc and faded to a dead pan grey brown. It took awhile to remove the paint and I used a mix of mink oil and saddle soap to restore the leather. Added some dye then used a very very small amount of car wax paste to buff it out to a semi shine. I think this is the one I restored.....there were several, but I just don't remember which one it was.
I do not own a NCO Luftwaffe visor and the cloth pilot's badge is not sewn on. I also do not own a German Cross. This jacket took some time to restore. It had paint splattered all over it and the leather was heavily scratched etc and faded to a dead pan grey brown. It took awhile to remove the paint and I used a mix of mink oil and saddle soap to restore the leather. Added some dye then used a very very small amount of car wax paste to buff it out to a semi shine. I think this is the one I restored.....there were several, but I just don't remember which one it was.Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
Very nice. I have some of these visors also that I got off of ebay for less than 30. Some are from late 50's to mid 70's period. I got these to alter and use to make costumes for use at Comic Con. Here is a pic of my daughter and I with actress Morena Baccarin.
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
I can not believe that I completely forgot to mention or show my best and favorite jacket! I wear this one everyday...have no idea how it slipped my notice. I got this off ebay from a collector/dealer in Germany last year. I have begged him to find me some more just like this one, but he said it is near impossible to find them. This is in near perfect condition Nappa leather high sheen IKO Ignaz Kolbinger café racer from the 30's Ritsch zippers and PRYM 6 snaps. He did not try to rip me off or make false claims of WW2 battle used. He was an honest dealer and I will always go to this dealer first off before anyone else.
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Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
I can not believe that I completely forgot to mention or show my best and favorite jacket! I wear this one everyday...have no idea how it slipped my notice. I got this off ebay from a collector/dealer in Germany last year. I have begged him to find me some more just like this one, but he said it is near impossible to find them. This is in near perfect condition Nappa leather high sheen IKO Ignaz Kolbinger café racer from the 30's Ritsch zippers and PRYM 6 snaps. He did not try to rip me off or make false claims of WW2 battle used. He was an honest dealer and I will always go to this dealer first off before anyone else.View attachment 13886 View attachment 13887 View attachment 13889
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
Very nice indeed! I am curious if you gentlemen know the whole story of Erich Hartmann's jacket? I am curious what you guys have heard or learned.
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
Why do you ask Rory? Do you have some good info? To my knowledge Gary Eastman and his team produced their repro based on available pics only although I may wrong but, it is remarkably similar to yours, slightly different pocket flaps and with a check pattern blanket lining but pretty close. Yours looks very nice indeed!
Rory Schultz
Well-Known Member
My private purchase jackets are from the 1930's and were either ADEFA or Elvo made in Germany or in Vienna Austria. All of which have a satin lining not checkered lining. All of mine have zippered pockets or open pockets not flaps. None are Hartmann's French Café Racer nor French made. They are not an Eastman reproduction either. I do not own any French Café cyclist jackets. (Wish I did own one but are just too expensive)
My other jackets are military issue. I think you might be getting my photos mixed up with another member's photos or I am misunderstanding your question. ( Long night with a terrible migraine) LOL
I was asking just out of curiosity about any info as to the whereabouts of original Hartmann's jackets, the trail of other Military Aces (U.S./RAF or Luftwaffe) military issued or private purchased jackets as well, their manufacturers and whereabouts (like in museums, or some famous collection, if in your personal collection or still in some original German family member's possession) Mostly, what I have heard are from museums, news, books and just a few first hand accounts ( RAF, American and Luftwaffe Pilots) and a TON of here say. I have only been online for 4 years and I have a lot of catching up to do on WW2 history and doing inventory on my stuff.
Here is an example that caused a lot of arguments. I was told by some Luftwaffe pilots that had served on the Eastern Front ….Luftwaffe pilots ( rarely ) wore private purchase jackets in battle. They would wear them around towns, base camps in their down time or in some training flights etc or transferring bases.....the reason? Russian soldiers did not recognize or accept the private purchase jacket as Military Issue and if a pilot was shot down, it gave the excuse for Russians to shoot pilots as a spy for not being in proper military issue attire. Just like the Germans would shoot American G.I.'s for wearing a German overcoat in winter (like in 1944) even when Americans were caught in winter lacking the sufficient apparel. Germans also shot Americans for being in possession of any German items as a souvenir like a Luger, photos, German medals etc......Even if the Germans themselves would grab their own souvenirs of others, looted Military jackets (like the RAF Irwin jacket that Galland wore) weapons,medals and so.....a huge double standard. SO I had mentioned that the several photos of Herr Hartmann departing his plane wearing the famous jacket just after a battle and ground crews were celebrating a milestone event and these newsmen were there taking the famous photos...that these photo ops. were majority staged ( publicity) in the newspapers for the population back home. Man....did it hit the fan!
My other jackets are military issue. I think you might be getting my photos mixed up with another member's photos or I am misunderstanding your question. ( Long night with a terrible migraine) LOL
I was asking just out of curiosity about any info as to the whereabouts of original Hartmann's jackets, the trail of other Military Aces (U.S./RAF or Luftwaffe) military issued or private purchased jackets as well, their manufacturers and whereabouts (like in museums, or some famous collection, if in your personal collection or still in some original German family member's possession) Mostly, what I have heard are from museums, news, books and just a few first hand accounts ( RAF, American and Luftwaffe Pilots) and a TON of here say. I have only been online for 4 years and I have a lot of catching up to do on WW2 history and doing inventory on my stuff.
Here is an example that caused a lot of arguments. I was told by some Luftwaffe pilots that had served on the Eastern Front ….Luftwaffe pilots ( rarely ) wore private purchase jackets in battle. They would wear them around towns, base camps in their down time or in some training flights etc or transferring bases.....the reason? Russian soldiers did not recognize or accept the private purchase jacket as Military Issue and if a pilot was shot down, it gave the excuse for Russians to shoot pilots as a spy for not being in proper military issue attire. Just like the Germans would shoot American G.I.'s for wearing a German overcoat in winter (like in 1944) even when Americans were caught in winter lacking the sufficient apparel. Germans also shot Americans for being in possession of any German items as a souvenir like a Luger, photos, German medals etc......Even if the Germans themselves would grab their own souvenirs of others, looted Military jackets (like the RAF Irwin jacket that Galland wore) weapons,medals and so.....a huge double standard. SO I had mentioned that the several photos of Herr Hartmann departing his plane wearing the famous jacket just after a battle and ground crews were celebrating a milestone event and these newsmen were there taking the famous photos...that these photo ops. were majority staged ( publicity) in the newspapers for the population back home. Man....did it hit the fan!
