A2 CONTRACT DATES-UP-DATED

[prostaff4ever]

Great stuff, Andrew!! I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I've done contracting with both the US Army and Navy, and although the procurement system is probably very different now than it was back then, it is usually an issue of funds allocated for specific purposes or to specific vendors. As you note, sometimes multiple items were procured under the same order number from the same vendor. Monies would have probably been allocated for a specific vendor under an annual contract and as the need arose, various orders were placed against a pre-allocated pool of money. Much of the disparity between when a contract was issued versus an order may have been due to administrative convenience on the part of the procurement departments that dealt with various suppliers. There is quite a bit a leeway given to the contracting side and as long as the monies were allocated and the bureaucracy requirements were met in order to pay the vendors for their goods and services, there wouldn't have been too much complaining amongst the participants involved. It would be very interesting to find the actual contracts or order documents to review. I would think that given so many of them that there would be a few still floating around in an archive somewhere. George

 

[Roughwear]

I will up date some of the contract information once Gary Eastman's A2 book is available in December.

The 1401-P contract for 30,000 jackets was placed on 8th August 1941, not 17th September which was the date when some newspapers reported the contract award.

 

[Robman]

Just out of curiousity I would like to know what contract was for the largest amount of A2s. I am only making an assumption but I'd have to say the Aero 15142???? It seems that the most common wartime A2s I've seen over the past ten years on ebay, identifying in museums, at airshows etc. have been the aero 15142, the RW 27752 or the Dubow 27798.

 

[Roughwear]

The largest size contract appears to have been for 50,000 A2. The Aero 42-18775-P was for this number and I suspect the previous Aero contract was the same size as was the Dubow 27798 contract. I will know more when I get Gary Eastman's A2 book next Saturday as he lists the contract sizes.

 

[Robman]

Thanks Andrew.

 

[Anonymous]

I am new at this hobby and already have handled 3 Aeros 42-18775-P
They seem to be everywhere, especially on ebay.
My favorite variation is the one with rounded pockets.

 

[Roughwear]

Having looked at Gary's book it seems that the largest contract awarded in the War was for 59,000 A2s and this was the first Bronco contract awarded on 18th May 1942.

 

[Roughwear]

Here is the updated list following the research undertaken by Gary Eastman. The contract sizes are in brackets.
Pre-War Order numbers and the Fiscal Year
32-485 Security (Aviation Togs) 1931/2 (probably less than 500)
33-1729 Werber 1932/33 (probably less than 500)
36-1112 P Werber 13 Sept.1935 (550)
37-3061 P Aero 1936/37 (probably less than 500)
37-3891 P H.L.B. Corp. 3 March 1937 (375)
38-1711-P Aero 26 Oct 1937 (1,500)
38-205 Werber (not listed by Gary)
39-2951 P Werber 9 Jan 1939 (1,250)
40-3785-P Aero 18 Dec 1940 (3,500)

Contract Numbers
W535ac16159 Rough Wear 2 Nov 1940 9.700)
W535ac16160 Aero 1 Nov 1940 (4,500)
W535ac18091 Rough Wear 6 March 1941(17,628)
W535ac20960 Dubow 8 August1941(13,000)
W535ac21996 Aero 14 October 1941(25,000)
W535ac23377 Perry 31 Dec 1941(20,000)
W535ac23378 Monarch 26 Dec 1941(15,000)
W535ac23379 Dubow 26 Dec 1941(10,000)
W535ac23380 Rough Wear 26 Dec 1941 (12,000)
W535ac23381 Cooper 5 Jan 1942 (5,000)
W535ac23382 Cable 29 Dec 1941(10,000)
W535ac23383 Fried Ostermann 22 Dec 1941(8,000)
W535ac27752 Rough Wear 27 April 1942 (50,000)
W535ac27753 Cable 29 April 1942 (50,000)
W535ac27798 Dubow 25 April 1942 (50,000)
W535ac28557 Star 18 May 1942 (30,000)
W535ac28560 Poughkeepsie 18 May 1942 (50,000)
W535ac29191 Bronco 18 May 1942 (59,000)
W535ac29971 David D Doniger 9 June 1942 (same contract as 21539)

Order Numbers
42-1401-P Rough Wear 8 August 1941(30,000)
42-1402-P Werber 8 August 1941(7,000)
42-10008-P Cable 19 Jan 1942 (10,000)
42-15142-P Aero 28 March 1942 (50,000)
42-16175-P Perry 23 May 1942 (50,000)
42-18245-P Star Spring 1942 (same contract as 28557)
42-18246-P S.H. Knopf 18 May 1942 (10,000)
42-18775-P Aero 25 May 1942 (50,000)
42-18776-P Spiewak 18 May 1942 (25,0000)
42-18777-P United Sheeplined 18 May 1942 (25,000)
42-21539-P David D. Doniger & Co. 9 June 1942 (5,000)
V505 Made in Australia 1943
W33-038ac1755(11631) Dubow 13 June 1944 (35,000)
1756 Perry 13 June 1944 (25,000)
W33-038ac1761 Bronco June 1944 (25,000)

 

[Anonymous]

Sticky please?

 

[Roughwear]

This is a sticky as it will always stay as the first thread on Vintage unless any more stickies are agreed to by the mods.

 

[Robman]

Andrew, thanks for the info. Basically what I thought if you look at the Aero 21996, 15142 and 18775P you have over one hundred thousand of the same type A2s, subtle differences of course but explains why you tend to see a lot of Aeros over the years.

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew, thanks for the info. Basically what I thought if you look at the Aero 21996, 15142 and 18775P you have over one hundred thousand of the same type A2s, subtle differences of course but explains why you tend to see a lot of Aeros over the years.

and also why there was insufficient horsehide to meet demand resulting in many wartime Aeros being made from cowhide.

 

[Robman]

Good point Andrew............by the way it also explains the abundance of the 27798 Dubows.

 

[Roughwear]

True, although they are usually found in smaller sizes.

 

[Anonymous]

A think what we need now is a list of all the notable repro makers
and what contracts they reproduce. That would be interesting.

 

[regius]

Andrew, this may be too much to ask, but would it be possible to sort the contracts/manufacturer chronologically and also grouped by their service theatres/period of the war? or, by historical milestones? Like say, the Doolittle Raid April 1942, therefore, there couldn't have been any contracts made after April 1942, and even more likely, most of the pilots probably had their jackets for a while, so most of them were wearing pre-war to 1940 contracts? This would not be absolutely accurate but just an idea.

 

[regius]

What I'm curious about is, say the last Perry contract with no name, made in 1944, how much war and where did this contract see?

 

[dujardin]

thanksssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[Roughwear]

The last three A-2 contracts do not date to 1944 as once thought. This date was made on the basis of a document which lists a range of contracts in 1944. Other evidence, including the sequence of order numbers, suggests a 1943 date which is the same as in Gary Eastman's book. Perhaps some day the original contract documents will be found so they can be dated precisely in 1943.

 

[johnwayne]

Returning to this thread after some while, I've often wondered (and think I've raised this point previously but don't recall where or if there was a response!) but for instance on say Dubow's 27798 contract for 50,000 jackets, how would the sizes be divided? As you comment, prob most would have been smaller as were guys back in the day and I guessing 38" would have been the average/ most common whereas from what I read on this very forum I would reckon 42"/44" more the norm today?
Owning a 27768 myself in a 44" that I obtained from Andrew/Roughwear and recall many moons ago at Ken Calder's Thrift Shop only ever seeing smaller sized originals, it's something that's always intrigued me!!