A-2 original ?

[B-Man2]

I really think this all goes down to maker interpretation, based on what they have in their collections or have inspected.
Possibly also grading sizes...

Gary certainly has at least one Star, I think its a 42 based on his book.
John must certainly have owned or handled them. Both of these gents must have inspected multiple examples.

ELC have certainly tweaked their patterns over the years, and I would take measurements off John's jackets with a pinch of salt (unless stated by him that a jacket in question is an exact clone),
John is/was very amenable to tweaking his jackets for customers.
I am sure he has made many jackets that are exact to originals, but there are also many that have been 'customised'... You'll find jackets of the same make and size measuring up differently.

This jacket reminds me of one that someone found in a thrift shop... Is this the same jacket?

Hi Guys
If it helps the conversation I have an original Star size 48 , that I could measure out and give you guys some accurate info regarding comparative dimensions of the shoulders and waist areas .

 

[Flightengineer]

Hi Guys
If it helps the conversation I have an original Star size 48 , that I could measure out and give you guys some accurate info regarding comparative dimensions of the shoulders and waist areas .View attachment 55364View attachment 55365

It would be very interesting to know the shoulder width of this jacket Burt. Thank you.

 

[Smithy]

ELC have certainly tweaked their patterns over the years, and I would take measurements off John's jackets with a pinch of salt (unless stated by him that a jacket in question is an exact clone),
John is/was very amenable to tweaking his jackets for customers.
I am sure he has made many jackets that are exact to originals, but there are also many that have been 'customised'... You'll find jackets of the same make and size measuring up differently.

Yeah it's true that John will tweak patterns for customers but I wasn't talking about the jackets he was making but rather his description of the particularities of the Star contract with originals where he says:

"The Star pattern is somewhat trim around the waist, but very comfortable, because they designed the upper back to be wider than other A-2s"

and...

"very roomy upper back/shoulder area"

John is usually very accurate with his descriptions and identifiers of the individual contracts with original jackets.

His descriptions would imply that one of the reasons original Stars differ from other contracts is that they are more generous in the upper back/shoulder area .

If John's observations are right then that then begs the question why is the ELC trim in the shoulders (if all the standard sized ones are made that way)? That would seem to imply that either ELC's Star is based on a "trim original version" of the Star or based upon something else.

 

[B-Man2]

Hi Guys
If it helps the conversation I have an original Star size 48 , that I could measure out and give you guys some accurate info regarding comparative dimensions of the shoulders and waist areas .View attachment 55364View attachment 55365

Sorry guys .. I had a brain fart and totally forgot to post the measurements of the Star size 48 pictured above . Here ya go!
Measurements;
Pit 2 pit front —- 25 .5 inches
Sleeves shoulder to end of knit cuff, 26 inches.
Shoulders across rear top ... 20.5 inches
Pit 2 pit across middle back .... 20.5 inches
Waist with knits laid flat 22 inches
Stretched out 23.5 inches
Back length from rear collar to bottom of knits down the center of the back 26.75 inches .
There they are guys !
Cheers

 

[Flightengineer]

Thanks Burt
So 20.5 for original versus 19 for ELC.

 

[B-Man2]

Thanks Burt
So 20.5 for original versus 19 for ELC.

Only If the ELC Star is also a size 48.

 

[Flightengineer]

Only If the ELC Star is also a size 48.

The measurement table from Charles HPA informs exactly about this.

 

[B-Man2]

Then you are correct. The original size 48 is 20.5 in the shoulders while the ELC size 48 is 19 inches in the shoulders .

 

[Chandler]

The measurement table from Charles HPA informs exactly about this.

Is there a link to these tables?

 

[leper-colony]

Is there a link to these tables?

History Preservation Eastman USAAF A-2 Flying Jacket, Star Sportswear 28857 | History Preservation

The Eastman Star Sportswear A-2 Jacket copies original manufacturer details from 1942; this A-2 is for those who want more than accuracy - they want history!

www.historypreservation.com

Click "Product Measurements" at the top.

 

[Chandler]

History Preservation Eastman USAAF A-2 Flying Jacket, Star Sportswear 28857 | History Preservation

The Eastman Star Sportswear A-2 Jacket copies original manufacturer details from 1942; this A-2 is for those who want more than accuracy - they want history!

www.historypreservation.com

Click "Product Measurements" at the top.

Oh, so just the web marketing -- I thought there was a full on table of collected measurements of each manufacturers' repro.

I'll have to take stats from my ELC Star for comparison.

Good god, $1500 these days.

 

[leper-colony]

Oh, so just the web marketing -- I thought there was a full on table of collected measurements of each manufacturers' repro.

I'll have to take stats from my ELC Star for comparison.

Good god, $1500 these days.

No, the title on the page says its for a specific jacket.

 

[B-Man2]

Oh, so just the web marketing -- I thought there was a full on table of collected measurements of each manufacturers' repro.

I'll have to take stats from my ELC Star for comparison.

Good god, $1500 these days.

And don’t forget about another $300 for import taxes plus shipping .

 

[Chandler]

No, the title on the page says its for a specific jacket.
View attachment 55533

I didn't see that on the first link -- I'll look for it. Is this available for all the jackets?

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I also cant be sure and stand to be corrected, but I think they made some post-war A-2s also... Without the label its hard to nail down...

https://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=4615

Measurements for a 42"

Pit to Pit: 21.5"

Sleeve: 24"

Back: 23.25"

Shoulder: 18.5"

 

[Chandler]

I'll have to take stats from my 44 ELC Star for comparison.

My Star is 20.25" across the shoulders and 20.625" across the waist at the knit seam.

When I lay it flat, the side seams actually "bevel" into the back, and if I measure across between those at the waist seam I get 20.375".

Makes me wonder if this second hand jacket wasn't a custom order. The waist has always felt a little baggy.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

My Star is 20.25" across the shoulders and 20.625" across the waist at the knit seam.

When I lay it flat, the side seams actually "bevel" into the back, and if I measure across between those at the waist seam I get 20.375".

Makes me wonder if this second hand jacket wasn't a custom order. The waist has always felt a little baggy.

Seems miles off the original Star we've got

 

[Chandler]

Seems miles off the original Star we've got

Well, it fits me quite nicely, thank you, so I'm not terribly concerned. Just sharing information.

Appears different from the HPA chart too, which leads me to believe my example may just have been a custom fit.

 

[Smithy]

Judging from the above it would seem that ELC's repro Star diverges from the original contract's wider back/shoulders feature that JC identifies.

 

[bn1966]

When looking for my latest A-2 I checked the HPA site and immediately was able to discount a Star based on the narrow shoulders. Charles having gone to the bother of listing the measurements made Monarch a no brainier being far more generous in that area.